building a new plot in the woods, cleared off 1/2 acre in the popple woods for an "orchard" to hunt, already ordered trees. just wondering about anything special I should do before they show up in Spring?...pretty heavy clay... should I treat the whole thing with gypsum this winter, then lime too?
new plot
- Thread starter keets
- Start date
rocksnstumps
5 year old buck +
Some other advise is to plant your new trees not too close to the edges. You can maybe cheat a bit closer to the edge on the north side but max sunlight is important to fruit trees. In ten years the existing trees will be growing and leaning into that new open space and will win the sunlight battle over young fruit trees that were not given a good buffer.
SD51555
5 year old buck +
That's a hell of a machine for habitat work. Very nice.
Telemark
5 year old buck +
If it's really heavy clay, you might want to dig big holes and amend the soil.
Make sure to cage and support your trees, and protect the base of the trunk from rodents. Also a weed mat and mulch will help.
If the are surrounding the trees is bare dirt that was under closed canopy, you should plant something there to suppress the seed bank. Perennial clover is usually a good bet. You could also plant a food plot mix if you want it to be a food plot while the trees mature.
Make sure to cage and support your trees, and protect the base of the trunk from rodents. Also a weed mat and mulch will help.
If the are surrounding the trees is bare dirt that was under closed canopy, you should plant something there to suppress the seed bank. Perennial clover is usually a good bet. You could also plant a food plot mix if you want it to be a food plot while the trees mature.
what do you mean by dig big holes and amend? oversize holes for planting trees?gypsum in the bottom?
I had a friend cut a trail through my woods up to a spot where he pushed out a rectangle opening about 35 yards by 55 yards, then loop back through the woods again to the driveway. I am going to put trees on a 20' X20' grid in there, and fence them off. Food plot materials between fence areas in the grid , definitely winter rye (or similar) next Sept.
Electrodigical
5 year old buck +
Ooooh I'll have to remember that.
"No officer, that's not a salt lick. (which would be illegal here) It's to kill the trees."
bigboreblr
5 year old buck +
You can burn the popple, the new trees will like the ash.
Get a soil test. I put a orchard in my backyard, so I didn't want to till the entire area up. But, my soil test said to put 6 tons of lime per acre. This is dairy one's suggesting for prepping a commercial fruit orchard. Not exactly what I was doing. But, something you can do alot easier with the bulldozer.
I wish I ran a subsoiler though the area. Would of added a bunch of line before. That cat have a ripper? That soil test may likely say you need some potassium.
If you plan on spraying the trees for incests, might be best not to grow clover. The bees will be there when your spraying for japanese beetles and caterpillars.
Any ammending local to the trees sites can help alot with heavy clay. Although my soi lhas 4-5% organic mattter, I still use a bale of peat moss to 4-6 trees. Probably around a 4x6 spot 2 feet deep. Even adding some sand if you can mix it into the soil well. I have a 13hp rototiller, put some ammending on it. I put some lime and fertilizer in the mix. Hand dig out the loose stugg, then run it deepr in the hole. However, I put some soil aside for around the roots. The fertilizer is great once it settled in. Ideally, I prep the sites in the fall for spring planting.
Try to get some wood chips if you can. Like from a tree trimming crew.
Remember you can push things around pretty quickly. The top few inches of soil is usually the best, it can be easily buried deep with a bulldozer. IF you can squeeze in the woods a bit, scrape some on the topsoil from the south face area. Make sure you get some good southern exposure.
IF you can buy a few more trees, get some bloom group 3 or 4 trees that are disease resistant. Enterprise, sundance,l iberty, and galarina are great fall apples. Sometimes the crabapples pop out flower too soon. Also, all of these trees are good for you to eat. Green and yellow apples get spared better by certain insects. Some go for the red. Yellow jackets seem to be nicer ot them, thats my big problem with making market quality apples.
Collect some 5 gallon buckets and drill one 3/16" hole it in IT allows you to slow water, makes it go down in the soil holes than a wider shallower area.
IF possible to good to the trees the first 3 or 4 years. Watering and insect spraying. Each good year a tree gets compounds into the future.
Consider how you are using the trees and hunting. You may want to divide your plot into 3, so you get 2 shooting lanes. Earlier season trees in the middle of each spot, later ones towards the opening. Maybe bow season on the 1 and 3 side of the two clearings. Put some of the rifle season ones on either side of the middle grove. The bow on 1 and 3 gives you more room for the arrow to fly. While the rifle season can be more patient for an accurate shot. Although, many prefer to hunt while the deer are going to the plot.
Also, keep in mind you shouldnt disturb the soil within 25 feet of mature trees, if you have food plot plans.
The trails going to your hunting spots should be shrubby. In deep woods or public mature forestland, the deer tend ot follow the line of shrubs for both food and seclusion. Once you get a feel for how they use that, you can pretty well predict deer movements. Put a trail camera by some big open oaks and barely get pics, then find how they get from their bed to the oaks and get pics pretty much daily.
You may not want to kill or dig up some stumps. You can use these for regnerative shrub growth. Just chop them low every 3 years with a chainsaw.
IF you ned to kill a stump, triclopyr with diesel is good. In many case, just putting diesel on them does all but the toughest ones. Red tordon RTU is a good product. In NY I can only get green, which I like too near other trees I am trying not to injure, or killing vines in trees. Often certain vine specieis start growing roots into the tree like a parasite. The red might kill a tree in the case of vines. Usually reasonable amount of red on a stump doesn't bother their neighboring tree.
Dairy one in NY and penn state are two good places. Take samples around 2-3 inches deep. Put a shovel in the ground about 5 or 6 inches and thro the soil out. Then take a hand shovle and get that 2-3 inch deep sample. If you want a reall good idea of whats going on. Dig a clean 2ft deep hole, take the soil from the side, not the loose stuff of the bottom and send them that 2nd sample. Best to take a dozen spots like that to get a good idea. The 2ft deep sample 6 would be ok.
Also with the bulldozer, cut stumps 3-4ft high. Stubborn ones you can back into the stump with the ripper and get that root or 2 facing where your going to push with the blade.
agsci.psu.edu
Get a soil test. I put a orchard in my backyard, so I didn't want to till the entire area up. But, my soil test said to put 6 tons of lime per acre. This is dairy one's suggesting for prepping a commercial fruit orchard. Not exactly what I was doing. But, something you can do alot easier with the bulldozer.
I wish I ran a subsoiler though the area. Would of added a bunch of line before. That cat have a ripper? That soil test may likely say you need some potassium.
If you plan on spraying the trees for incests, might be best not to grow clover. The bees will be there when your spraying for japanese beetles and caterpillars.
Any ammending local to the trees sites can help alot with heavy clay. Although my soi lhas 4-5% organic mattter, I still use a bale of peat moss to 4-6 trees. Probably around a 4x6 spot 2 feet deep. Even adding some sand if you can mix it into the soil well. I have a 13hp rototiller, put some ammending on it. I put some lime and fertilizer in the mix. Hand dig out the loose stugg, then run it deepr in the hole. However, I put some soil aside for around the roots. The fertilizer is great once it settled in. Ideally, I prep the sites in the fall for spring planting.
Try to get some wood chips if you can. Like from a tree trimming crew.
Remember you can push things around pretty quickly. The top few inches of soil is usually the best, it can be easily buried deep with a bulldozer. IF you can squeeze in the woods a bit, scrape some on the topsoil from the south face area. Make sure you get some good southern exposure.
IF you can buy a few more trees, get some bloom group 3 or 4 trees that are disease resistant. Enterprise, sundance,l iberty, and galarina are great fall apples. Sometimes the crabapples pop out flower too soon. Also, all of these trees are good for you to eat. Green and yellow apples get spared better by certain insects. Some go for the red. Yellow jackets seem to be nicer ot them, thats my big problem with making market quality apples.
Collect some 5 gallon buckets and drill one 3/16" hole it in IT allows you to slow water, makes it go down in the soil holes than a wider shallower area.
IF possible to good to the trees the first 3 or 4 years. Watering and insect spraying. Each good year a tree gets compounds into the future.
Consider how you are using the trees and hunting. You may want to divide your plot into 3, so you get 2 shooting lanes. Earlier season trees in the middle of each spot, later ones towards the opening. Maybe bow season on the 1 and 3 side of the two clearings. Put some of the rifle season ones on either side of the middle grove. The bow on 1 and 3 gives you more room for the arrow to fly. While the rifle season can be more patient for an accurate shot. Although, many prefer to hunt while the deer are going to the plot.
Also, keep in mind you shouldnt disturb the soil within 25 feet of mature trees, if you have food plot plans.
The trails going to your hunting spots should be shrubby. In deep woods or public mature forestland, the deer tend ot follow the line of shrubs for both food and seclusion. Once you get a feel for how they use that, you can pretty well predict deer movements. Put a trail camera by some big open oaks and barely get pics, then find how they get from their bed to the oaks and get pics pretty much daily.
You may not want to kill or dig up some stumps. You can use these for regnerative shrub growth. Just chop them low every 3 years with a chainsaw.
IF you ned to kill a stump, triclopyr with diesel is good. In many case, just putting diesel on them does all but the toughest ones. Red tordon RTU is a good product. In NY I can only get green, which I like too near other trees I am trying not to injure, or killing vines in trees. Often certain vine specieis start growing roots into the tree like a parasite. The red might kill a tree in the case of vines. Usually reasonable amount of red on a stump doesn't bother their neighboring tree.
Dairy one in NY and penn state are two good places. Take samples around 2-3 inches deep. Put a shovel in the ground about 5 or 6 inches and thro the soil out. Then take a hand shovle and get that 2-3 inch deep sample. If you want a reall good idea of whats going on. Dig a clean 2ft deep hole, take the soil from the side, not the loose stuff of the bottom and send them that 2nd sample. Best to take a dozen spots like that to get a good idea. The 2ft deep sample 6 would be ok.
Also with the bulldozer, cut stumps 3-4ft high. Stubborn ones you can back into the stump with the ripper and get that root or 2 facing where your going to push with the blade.
Soil Fertility Testing (Agricultural Analytical Services Lab)
This program is designed as a soil-management tool for farmers, homeowners, landscape contractors, golf-course superintendents, ornamental nurserymen and others interested in the fertility of their soil and in determining the optimum lime and fertilizer requirements of their crop.
Last edited:
bigboreblr
5 year old buck +
A guy in the club tried salt licks for a few years, he'd get good summer activity for the camera. They didn't mess with it much past september. Yeah its a no-no in NY. Not my handiwork though.Ooooh I'll have to remember that.
"No officer, that's not a salt lick. (which would be illegal here) It's to kill the trees."
Telemark
5 year old buck +
Oversize holes and add whatever the soil needs. If it's heavy clay, it might need some organic matter like compost and wood chips. Don't overthink it, it's just to give your tree an easier time putting roots down for the first few years. A little gypsum in the very bottom of the hole might help. Neither of these are necessary, but it can help the tree for the first few years getting established.
