yoderjac
5 year old buck +
Interesting. Evidently this Mitsubishi doesn't have that....at least according to the manual.
New barn
- Thread starter yoderjac
- Start date
Interesting. Evidently this Mitsubishi doesn't have that....at least according to the manual.
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
Yes, there is still a long way to go. I'm cheap, so once it is turned over to me there is a lot of work for me to do. I'll build the shelving in the kitchen and install wire shelf in the utility room. I bought some UFO LED barn lights. I'll run the power and install those as well. I can't really start any of that until they turn it over. Then comes the big tack of emptying our house of anything we don't want in it when we show it for sale.
On top of all this, I need to finish the entry road. They put in the road base with culverts and the first layer of stone. There are places that need some French drains and grading. There will be final grading to do around the barn when they are done.
Between this and all the road maintenance at the pine farm, I'm considering buying a used mini-excavator: https://habitat-talk.com/index.php?threads/mini-excavator.12269/
Thanks,
Jack
Buckly
5 year old buck +
LG Multi V is what you would need. Too late now!!!!!! LOL. I have a Carrier mini split system. Similar to the Mitsubishi units. Has a good warranty. I’m very happy with the mini split ductless systems. Very efficient with the modulation Works very well. My cooling bills have dropped by tons
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
This is my first mini-split. I guess I didn't get into enough detail when I studied up on them. I think it will be very efficient for me. First, I had them spray 1" of closed cell foam in the wall of the barn to seal it. Then they put R30 in the outside walls of the living area and I'm in zone 7A. Cooling is a bigger concern than heating. The barn roof is Artic white which had the highest reflectivity factor of all the color choices. The barn sides are fairly light and reflective as well, and the overhang protects the side wall on one exterior side of the living area. All of my lighting is LED. There is no stove or oven, just a microwave and maybe a toaster oven. My meter base cost is $30/mo. I'm guessing that will be more than my usage cost even when we are living in it.
Thanks,
Jack
Buckly
5 year old buck +
Pennies a day is what they told me to run. I didnt believe it but my electric bill was cut in half for cooling and my place isn’t anywhere near as insulated as yours. I don’t use mine for heat, it’s just a backup heat source. It’s set up for air. High wall. Modulating condenser and modulating fan speeds equals whisper quite No more air whistling through duct work. You’ll love it
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yoderjac
5 year old buck +
We made a little progress over the last week. The HVAC installer came out and worked on the programming. It looks like I can now set the heat down to 50 degrees at least (would have like 40 as a minimum set point) and set back scheduling is now available on the menu. The next thing we worked on was barn lighting. I decided not to have the contractor put in the lighting and may it a DIY project. I bought some of these LED UFO lights: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08DHGP5GB/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
We can't get the final inspection and the Certificate of Occupancy (CO) until the 3B work is done on the well. I don't want to have any electrical open when the county comes for the final inspection, so I'm limited in what I can do until that occurs. We did do the lighting layout and installed the hooks to physically hang the UFO lights. The barn door openers are plug-in so there is an outlet near each of them. The UFO lights are direct wire, so we stopped at Lowes and picked up a plug and an extension cord. I also bought a forced air propane heater from Lowes: https://www.lowes.com/pd/DEWALT-DEW...Portable-Forced-Air-Propane-Heater/1001045892 I just took one of my propane tanks off the trailer at the farm. They have not been used since I got the big 320 gal propane tank and hooked it up to the trailer. This kept us toasty as we worked.
I opened one of the UFO lights and attached the plug. I then got on a ladder, plugged it in, and held it up so my wife could see the footprint on the floor. Based on that, we decided where to put lights for general lighting in the barn. Once I get a shop setup in a few years, I'll work on more specific lighting if I need it. I had purchased 4 of the UFO and we decided we needed 5 to cover the barn. We put up the hooks at the appropriate locations and I ordered one more two-pack of lights. We will use the last one eventually in the basement of the new house where we will have a butchering station setup for processing deer. The wiring will need to wait for the CO.
That brings us to the next problem, insurance. A couple years ago someone applies for credit in my name. It was quickly caught, but I put credit freezes on with the big three. For some reason, baffling to me, insurance companies want access to your credit report to sell you insurance. For some reason I was having trouble lifting the freezes but I finally got that worked out. That must not have been the issue because the insurance company is still having issues. I've learned a lot through the process. The insurance company can add it to my current homeowners policy and an "other structure" but only until the OC is issued. They can do that immediately without a credit check. That is good since the builder's risk policy just expired. Once the OC is issued it needs it's own policy. So, I've told the builder to get the 3B work finished on the well as soon as he can but to hold off on calling the county for the final inspection until the insurance company can work out their glitch with the credit bureaus. Once that happens, I'll give him the go ahead to call the county. As soon as the policy is issued, I'll freeze the credit again with the big three.
We did this work between trips looking at mini-excavators: https://habitat-talk.com/index.php?threads/mini-excavator.12269/ If I get one of these, I'll use it to deal with driveway drainage as well as the final grading. I wish I had it as our next project was cleaning up a couple oaks that were uprooted during the recent ice storm we had. I got lucky. They fell across the field right where I planted fruit trees. They fell exactly between the cages and did not hurt a single one! I took over my new Dewalt chainsaw and cut it up. There is still some more that needs done, but I'll need to bring the Kioti over when it dries out (unless I get a mini-excavator in the meantime) to finish it.
I hope John gets the picture posting issue resolved soon and I'll post some more pics.
Thanks,
Jack
We can't get the final inspection and the Certificate of Occupancy (CO) until the 3B work is done on the well. I don't want to have any electrical open when the county comes for the final inspection, so I'm limited in what I can do until that occurs. We did do the lighting layout and installed the hooks to physically hang the UFO lights. The barn door openers are plug-in so there is an outlet near each of them. The UFO lights are direct wire, so we stopped at Lowes and picked up a plug and an extension cord. I also bought a forced air propane heater from Lowes: https://www.lowes.com/pd/DEWALT-DEW...Portable-Forced-Air-Propane-Heater/1001045892 I just took one of my propane tanks off the trailer at the farm. They have not been used since I got the big 320 gal propane tank and hooked it up to the trailer. This kept us toasty as we worked.
I opened one of the UFO lights and attached the plug. I then got on a ladder, plugged it in, and held it up so my wife could see the footprint on the floor. Based on that, we decided where to put lights for general lighting in the barn. Once I get a shop setup in a few years, I'll work on more specific lighting if I need it. I had purchased 4 of the UFO and we decided we needed 5 to cover the barn. We put up the hooks at the appropriate locations and I ordered one more two-pack of lights. We will use the last one eventually in the basement of the new house where we will have a butchering station setup for processing deer. The wiring will need to wait for the CO.
That brings us to the next problem, insurance. A couple years ago someone applies for credit in my name. It was quickly caught, but I put credit freezes on with the big three. For some reason, baffling to me, insurance companies want access to your credit report to sell you insurance. For some reason I was having trouble lifting the freezes but I finally got that worked out. That must not have been the issue because the insurance company is still having issues. I've learned a lot through the process. The insurance company can add it to my current homeowners policy and an "other structure" but only until the OC is issued. They can do that immediately without a credit check. That is good since the builder's risk policy just expired. Once the OC is issued it needs it's own policy. So, I've told the builder to get the 3B work finished on the well as soon as he can but to hold off on calling the county for the final inspection until the insurance company can work out their glitch with the credit bureaus. Once that happens, I'll give him the go ahead to call the county. As soon as the policy is issued, I'll freeze the credit again with the big three.
We did this work between trips looking at mini-excavators: https://habitat-talk.com/index.php?threads/mini-excavator.12269/ If I get one of these, I'll use it to deal with driveway drainage as well as the final grading. I wish I had it as our next project was cleaning up a couple oaks that were uprooted during the recent ice storm we had. I got lucky. They fell across the field right where I planted fruit trees. They fell exactly between the cages and did not hurt a single one! I took over my new Dewalt chainsaw and cut it up. There is still some more that needs done, but I'll need to bring the Kioti over when it dries out (unless I get a mini-excavator in the meantime) to finish it.
I hope John gets the picture posting issue resolved soon and I'll post some more pics.
Thanks,
Jack
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
I was at the Meadow today doing some mowing when the well guys showed up to do the 3b work. It was interesting to watch. They had tubing sticking out a few yards that was put in when the casing was sunk. They disconnected the pump from barn and connected it to some tubing they ran to their machine. They dropped bags of cement into the machine making a slurry and pumped it into the hole around the outside of the casing. I guess the idea is to seal the well from ground water that might have contaminants in it. This is the last thing the contractor has to do before he can get a final inspection by the health department and county building folks. That should allow them to issue the certificate of occupancy.
The only issue is that the insurance folks have not solved the issue yet. I called them today and kicked them in the butt again. Hopefully they can resolve the issue soon. The builder said he has ordered the cement for the aprons and patio. We decided to expand the patio to about double the size. He was planning on bringing his skid loader back to move the stone into the forms, but I told him I'd do it with my FEL. So, I'm meeting him Tuesday morning.
My wife and I plan to go down early next week to take the first load of stuff out of our garage for storage in the barn. Things are shaping up nicely!
Thanks,
Jack
The only issue is that the insurance folks have not solved the issue yet. I called them today and kicked them in the butt again. Hopefully they can resolve the issue soon. The builder said he has ordered the cement for the aprons and patio. We decided to expand the patio to about double the size. He was planning on bringing his skid loader back to move the stone into the forms, but I told him I'd do it with my FEL. So, I'm meeting him Tuesday morning.
My wife and I plan to go down early next week to take the first load of stuff out of our garage for storage in the barn. Things are shaping up nicely!
Thanks,
Jack
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
Cement is poured! We met the builder to move stone with my Kioti as he extended the forms to larger patio size we wanted on Tuesday. As it turns out, he had forgotten he had as much stone as he did already laid under the overhang. So, I did not have to move stone for them. Instead, we worked on modifying large workbench that we brought down the other day. This morning we met them to watch the concrete pour.
Other than some minor punch list items, the barn is done from the builder's perspective. I need to get the insurance issue dealt with and then it is final inspection time! The work then begins for us adding barn lights to he barn and shelving and other final items to the living area.
IT has been an experience!
Other than some minor punch list items, the barn is done from the builder's perspective. I need to get the insurance issue dealt with and then it is final inspection time! The work then begins for us adding barn lights to he barn and shelving and other final items to the living area.
IT has been an experience!
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
In late Jan, the county came out and did the final inspection. They found a few small electrical issues. The contractor came out and fixed them the next day. Last week, the county came back out. The inspector said I was good to go. Last weekend, my wife did a good cleaning of the living area and we installed overhead LED UFO lights in the barn. I didn't want to start that until the county was done inspecting.
Finally, today I received a copy of the Certification of Occupancy! I got my insurance changed over. It now has it's own policy rather than being an "other structure" on our home insurance. I found they cut holes for the HVAC and left them open on top of the living area. So, today, I created access panels for them so they can still be easily serviced but they are no longer an invitation to vermin.
Before:
After:
Also install shelving in the utility room
Thanks,
Jack
Finally, today I received a copy of the Certification of Occupancy! I got my insurance changed over. It now has it's own policy rather than being an "other structure" on our home insurance. I found they cut holes for the HVAC and left them open on top of the living area. So, today, I created access panels for them so they can still be easily serviced but they are no longer an invitation to vermin.
Before:
After:
Also install shelving in the utility room
Thanks,
Jack
swat1018
5 year old buck +
You run out of anti-freeze jugs?
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
Yep!
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
We are about finished with the first summer with the new barn. One thing I found was that the summer heat makes working in the shop very uncomfortable. It is both heat and humidity. I've been looking into cooling solutions. Clearly in a space this large AC is out of the question, but I don't really need to reduce the temperature that much.
Two concepts I'm looking into are Air Tubes and HVLS Fans. I've got the mini-excavator for Air Tube installation, so the cost would be the tube and stone. While I'm sure this would help by itself, just providing a cool air source, I'm not really sure if the effort is worth it without some way to draw sufficient air through it. That got me looking into air movement. As I did that, I came across HVLS fans. They look like the right tool for the job, but price seems to be a big issue. Everything I'm finding on-line is several thousand dollars. Looking into this got me thinking that if I go this route, it probably makes sense to focus on the fan first. It may turn out that it provides sufficient cooling and humidity control that I may not need the Air Tube.
I'd like to hear thoughts from folks who have a shop area in their barn who has hot summers. How do you cool. I'd like to hear from anyone with experience with HVLS fans. Also, if anyone know of HVLS fans that are $1,500 or less.
Thanks,
Jack
Two concepts I'm looking into are Air Tubes and HVLS Fans. I've got the mini-excavator for Air Tube installation, so the cost would be the tube and stone. While I'm sure this would help by itself, just providing a cool air source, I'm not really sure if the effort is worth it without some way to draw sufficient air through it. That got me looking into air movement. As I did that, I came across HVLS fans. They look like the right tool for the job, but price seems to be a big issue. Everything I'm finding on-line is several thousand dollars. Looking into this got me thinking that if I go this route, it probably makes sense to focus on the fan first. It may turn out that it provides sufficient cooling and humidity control that I may not need the Air Tube.
I'd like to hear thoughts from folks who have a shop area in their barn who has hot summers. How do you cool. I'd like to hear from anyone with experience with HVLS fans. Also, if anyone know of HVLS fans that are $1,500 or less.
Thanks,
Jack
Tree Spud
5 year old buck +
I have 2 small '5 ceiling fans that run continuously. We have 6' roof overhangs on 1st level which keeps sun off lower wall. The were ~ $300 ea.
Wall insulation with 2" of form and 6" rag wool.
Garage doors are also insulated which helps. Roof is a silver metal so that helps.
During the day, when its hot, I keep 2 doors open at opposite end of workshop (60') have a fan in one door pulling air from across the shop.
Best advice, if your cement floor is cool, keep the doors closed as long as you can during the day to keep hot air from coming in.
Wall insulation with 2" of form and 6" rag wool.
Garage doors are also insulated which helps. Roof is a silver metal so that helps.
During the day, when its hot, I keep 2 doors open at opposite end of workshop (60') have a fan in one door pulling air from across the shop.
Best advice, if your cement floor is cool, keep the doors closed as long as you can during the day to keep hot air from coming in.
Troubles Trees
5 year old buck +
There are alot of AC options for $1,500 and under my friend.
Heat pumps would be ideal for a garage or barn but since you already have in floor heat that isn't best for you.
In the video above, as you walk in the door, the first room on your left has an AC unit (evaporator) mounted in the ceiling. I am assuming that goes to an outdoor condenser, most condensers can handle 4-5 evaporators so you likely already have an AC option there, you just have to buy the evaporators and get them hooked up.
You have windows so if you wanted to go cheap for around $400 you could stick a window unit in 2 windows on opposite sides of the garage. One window unit in my small house removes all the humidity and makes the temps bearable during heat waves. Like a dry 75 degrees inside when it is 95 and humid outside.
If you wanted to go green, running PVC piping underground would help cool the space but not on removing the humidity so you could put in one window AC unit or a dehumidifier for the humidity. I would go with the window AC unit because with a dehumidifier it creates heat in the process and the AC unit helps you cool. Anyway, check this out, this is a package deal meant to show you the concept, but you could just bury the PVC in the ground and use in-duct fans to push and pull the airflow.
Earth Tubes: A Natural Way to Air Condition Your Home - The Permaculture Research Institute
There is nothing nicer than coming inside on a hot, muggy summer day to feel the freshness of an air
www.permaculturenews.org
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
Thanks guys. My barn is 40x64 with about 500 sqft in one corner boxed off for living space. The living space has a mini-split with 3 indoor evaporators sharing one condenser outside the barn. The condenser is maxed out. I probably over did it with 3 indoor units. On in each bedroom and one in the bathroom. They also provide the only heat source. The barn has 1" of spray in and the roof is artic white (highly reflective). The overhead doors on either end are insulated and 12' tall. The bottom of the rafters is about 14' up. The barn runs mostly north-south. There is an overhang on the east side. I'd like to have one added on the west side as well. There are no windows in the barn portion, just 2 man doors and the two overhead doors.
I've been looking into earth tubs. I do have several concerns. Right now I'm in the early planning phase. I don't think AC is a viable option for this large open space. Both the up front cost and operating cost for such a large space used for a shop, I just can't justify. Keep in mind that the large overhead doors get opened often for bringing in the tractor and such. I think air movement and maybe adding the earth tubes is a more workable option.
There is no heat in the floor or anywhere else in the barn. Our winters are not terrible and I just used a portable propane space heater and was fine this winter. Cooling is more of an issue for me.
Earth tubes actually do dehumidify. They need to be about 10' deep and the diameter of the pipe drives the effectiveness more than the length. They say you hit the law of diminishing returns at about 100'-150'. Warm air is sucked through the tube cooled by the earth. Water from that warm air condenses in the pipe as it cools moving under ground. One of my concerns is mold and insects. The tubes need to be angled so the water runs out of the tube to avoid mold. I guess you need some kind of sock over the tube after it Tees to come above ground for source air. Since this would need to be a DIY thing to make it cost effective for me, I'd need to explore in more detail how to accomplish this. It would provide a low cost cool air source.
Earth tubes are different since they are a closed system and cycle air. Another possibility is a closed system with fluid, but they require a heat exchanger.
Back to fans and a question for Tree Spud. My concern is that to move enough air in such a large space, a regular ceiling fan or two would need to spin pretty fast. My concern is that breeze is enough to stir up sawdust and such. A HVLS fan solves this by moving large air volumes at a low speed.
You are spot on with the cement floor acting as a heat sink. I've found that if I open the south door, it really heats up much faster and stays hot much longer. If I open it just a couple inches and open the north overhead door fully, it helps somewhat. I get a bit more airflow and my cement is protected from sun heating. It still gets some because the apron is in the sun, but much less.
Thanks,
Jack
I've been looking into earth tubs. I do have several concerns. Right now I'm in the early planning phase. I don't think AC is a viable option for this large open space. Both the up front cost and operating cost for such a large space used for a shop, I just can't justify. Keep in mind that the large overhead doors get opened often for bringing in the tractor and such. I think air movement and maybe adding the earth tubes is a more workable option.
There is no heat in the floor or anywhere else in the barn. Our winters are not terrible and I just used a portable propane space heater and was fine this winter. Cooling is more of an issue for me.
Earth tubes actually do dehumidify. They need to be about 10' deep and the diameter of the pipe drives the effectiveness more than the length. They say you hit the law of diminishing returns at about 100'-150'. Warm air is sucked through the tube cooled by the earth. Water from that warm air condenses in the pipe as it cools moving under ground. One of my concerns is mold and insects. The tubes need to be angled so the water runs out of the tube to avoid mold. I guess you need some kind of sock over the tube after it Tees to come above ground for source air. Since this would need to be a DIY thing to make it cost effective for me, I'd need to explore in more detail how to accomplish this. It would provide a low cost cool air source.
Earth tubes are different since they are a closed system and cycle air. Another possibility is a closed system with fluid, but they require a heat exchanger.
Back to fans and a question for Tree Spud. My concern is that to move enough air in such a large space, a regular ceiling fan or two would need to spin pretty fast. My concern is that breeze is enough to stir up sawdust and such. A HVLS fan solves this by moving large air volumes at a low speed.
You are spot on with the cement floor acting as a heat sink. I've found that if I open the south door, it really heats up much faster and stays hot much longer. If I open it just a couple inches and open the north overhead door fully, it helps somewhat. I get a bit more airflow and my cement is protected from sun heating. It still gets some because the apron is in the sun, but much less.
Thanks,
Jack
4wanderingeyes
5 year old buck +
I have 4 inches of insulation under the concrete floor, 2 inches of spray foam in the walls, with r21 over it. I have industrial insulated 12 foot tall shop doors. In the summer, if I can leave the doors closed, it will stay about 20 degrees cooler inside. But once that concrete does heat up, it takes days to cool it back off. I have in floor heat, and right now it is powered heated with propane, but the plan is to install a outdoor wood stove to heat the place. I am planning on running the lines to the wood stove with a valve that would pump the water into a 300 gallon tank burried 5 feet under the ground, so in the summer time, I can run th epump and it will cycle the cool water from the tank in to the floor lines. I had a similar system installed into a cabin. But you need to make sure you have a seperate lift pump in the underground tank, because it would lose its prime when shut off for more then a few days. This wasnt an answer for high humidity, but it can keep the temps down considerably for low cost of just an electrical pump running water.
b116757
5 year old buck +
I fully insulated my 40x60x14 garage with fiberglass in the walls/ceiling and 1” High density foam under the slab and it’s still quite hot during our southern Kansas summer. I normally run a 32” barn fan directly on me when I’m working out there in the heat of summer. The rest of the year it’s pretty nice out there with no heat or AC even in the dead of winter it really doesn’t freeze in there most years. I do have a diesel torpedo heater I will kick on if I’m doing wood glue ups in the coldest parts of the year just so the glue sets properly. Really it’s just to big to air condition for no more time than I spend out there when lion’s and zebra’s are running across my lawn because it’s Africa hot.
Cousin has a shop serving a large beef cattle operation, same problem as you. Can't remember but he has either 1 or 2 semi radiators hooked up and blowing. The cattle go through a lot of water, so it flows from the well through those radiators on the way to the cattle barns, not even an added cost for him. Not sure your water situation.
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
Well, things are coming a long reasonably well. I now have the shop mostly setup and we've been putting shelving in for storage when we move into the living space and begin building the house. The latest upgrade is internet service. Up until now, I've been using a mobile hotspot (jetpack) for internet service. The power coop partnered with an ISP and used there existing right of ways to install fiber. I'm sure their primary objective was to have high speed connections to substations for power management, but their partner is selling the excess capacity to the homeowners. So, I now have the option for speeds up to a gigabit/sec. It has been a lot of back and forth with the ISP. I made some calls to tech support prior to purchase to make sure I could have the level of control I needed. Well, once I ordered the Residential service they said would give me the control I needed, they changed their tune and said, "we can't do that". Since I was not in contact with the Residential side of the house, it was hard to explain to them they they can do that, I was just advised by tech support to order the wrong service. Eventually, they got me to the business side of the house who completely understood.
The only down side is that their business service is more expensive. I'll be paying the same each month for 100mb/sec of business service which gives you full control of the router as I would have been paying for a gigabit/sec of Residential service. On the upside, I do get a static IP address. They completed the installation on Monday morning. I play around with the basics and convince myself I can do all the things I need to do. Next week, I plan to take my desktop down, configure the router, and get it up and running.
The physical installation was quite interesting. Things have changed considerably since I played with fiber. In the old days, it was as much of an art as science polishing fiber and applying connectors. Now, they have a little gismo, smaller than a lunch box. You put a piece of fiber in each end. It is magnified about 300x on the screen. You push a button and the gismo aligns the two pieces of fiber and uses an electrical arc to melt the ends together. It took the technician about 30 seconds to make the splice. This particular system has a separate modem that is not part of the router. That lets them protect the fiber which is a little more delicate than cat 6. Cat 6 is then run to a mesh wifi router.
Thanks,
Jack
The only down side is that their business service is more expensive. I'll be paying the same each month for 100mb/sec of business service which gives you full control of the router as I would have been paying for a gigabit/sec of Residential service. On the upside, I do get a static IP address. They completed the installation on Monday morning. I play around with the basics and convince myself I can do all the things I need to do. Next week, I plan to take my desktop down, configure the router, and get it up and running.
The physical installation was quite interesting. Things have changed considerably since I played with fiber. In the old days, it was as much of an art as science polishing fiber and applying connectors. Now, they have a little gismo, smaller than a lunch box. You put a piece of fiber in each end. It is magnified about 300x on the screen. You push a button and the gismo aligns the two pieces of fiber and uses an electrical arc to melt the ends together. It took the technician about 30 seconds to make the splice. This particular system has a separate modem that is not part of the router. That lets them protect the fiber which is a little more delicate than cat 6. Cat 6 is then run to a mesh wifi router.
Thanks,
Jack
