Major cutting of oaks

[Steve Oehlenschlager]

Doing the opposite of what most people are doing. Plan on cutting 20 acres of oaks and Popple this next winter. Oaks are 65% and Popple 35%. Was logged 37 years ago of all the mature Popple and the forest has totally shifted in balance to the oaks. When originally cut it was probably 50% each. Yes it is nice to have oaks but I got way too many. Plan on cutting 90% of the oaks and 100% of the Popple to try and shift the balance back towards the Popple. You need a ton of sunlight for good Popple regeneration. Of course we like deer but we like grouse a little better! All this is being done with profession guidance. Interesting to see how it comes out. The 10% of the oaks left should be the best mature ones we have. A ton of the oaks are about 50 to 60 years old. Really curious to see how their growth rate exploded after the cut 37 years ago. If this cut goes well, will probably do the same thing on another 20 acres in 10 more years.

 

[Shedder]

What kind of oaks?

The problem with random cutting is that 5% of the oaks are the major mast producers.

 

[Steve Oehlenschlager]

99% Burr Oaks. Most of the best mature trees will stay. 95% of what will be cut are oaks with a diameter of about 1 foot. Yes these tree do produce some acorns, but the vast majority of the acorns produced come from trees with larger crowns. The smaller ones to be cut.....don't have much if any crowns.

 

[bwoods11]

What state are you in?

Are you getting some decent $$ for the bur oak??

 

[Steve Oehlenschlager]

Minnesota. Not as good of money as I hoped....but most are small. Bid went to numerous logging companies. Unless it is perfect mature oak......its not worth as much as you would think.

 

[chickenlittle]

Is your plan to eventually sell the oaks that are left or they a permanent acorn plot. If planning to eventually sell and everything else is removed, is there concern that they may sprout epicormic limbs on the trunk that will lessen their value?

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Are the loggers taking the oaks for lumber, or will it become firewood ?? Just curious.

 

[Steve Oehlenschlager]

What oaks are not cut should be around and standing until after my death or the next cut in 40 years. We want to turn it into a higher % popple (ASPEN) forest for better grouse and yes..better deer habitat. The mature trees will not sprout lower limbs from the increased light they will receive. I have never seen that happen around here on mature trees. I am sure that a lot of the smaller oaks will stump sprout. However they will quickly be left in the dust from the fast growing popple suckers.

 

[Steve Oehlenschlager]

No idea what they will use it for........Probably both

 

[Steve Oehlenschlager]

One thing most people don't realize is how much less wood there is in a oak forest vs a mature popple (aspen) forest. The oaks are spread out enough that you just don't get the volume like a nice thick mature popple stand. So even if you get more per cord......there are so fewer cords that the money is disappointing. Yes I will loose some acorn mast in the fall, but I will get a ton more browse and thick cover. After owning a single piece for almost 40 years.....it is unbelievable how much change has occurred. You always got to be doing something every 5 to 10 years or before you know it.......the deer don't like your place. That's why it can be foolish to do one big huge cut when it can be divided into 3 or 4 over a 20 year period.

 

[ruskbucks]

One thing most people don't realize is how much less wood there is in a oak forest vs a mature popple (aspen) forest. The oaks are spread out enough that you just don't get the volume like a nice thick mature popple stand. So even if you get more per cord......there are so fewer cords that the money is disappointing. Yes I will loose some acorn mast in the fall, but I will get a ton more browse and thick cover. After owning a single piece for almost 40 years.....it is unbelievable how much change has occurred. You always got to be doing something every 5 to 10 years or before you know it.......the deer don't like your place. That's why it can be foolish to do one big huge cut when it can be divided into 3 or 4 over a 20 year period.

This is happening to my friends place right now. He bought it a few years after a almost all clear cut. It was full of deer when he bought it. It was about 80% popple. Over 15 years his woods is quickly turning into a hardwoods forest. Less deer and less cover/food. He has done a "tornado hinge cut area and a small clear cut. It has helped a lot. The only thing was in the clear cut he had removed all the brush and is getting very poor regeneration. Were pretty sure the deer are mowing them down. The tornado cut looks like a jungle with all the new growth.

 

[Steve Oehlenschlager]

Don't get me wrong...I will miss the oaks but what good is a pretty forest that doesn't support the number of wildlife it could? Still tons of oaks left on surrounding areas and land. Just trying to set my forest back in age.

 

[bwoods11]

You could convert some of your forest to oak savanna. Grasses underneath... Maybe not great for grouse but deer will feed under the oaks as they drop.

 

[ruskbucks]

Don't get me wrong...I will miss the oaks but what good is a pretty forest that doesn't support the number of wildlife it could? Still tons of oaks left on surrounding areas and land. Just trying to set my forest back in age.

What percentage of your cutting do you think will come back in as popple? I just did a cutting on my land and we basically clear cut all the areas that had popple to try to get some regenerating again. I think you are doing the right thing with your woods. I think diversity is one of the main components in land management. Why have a monoculture of just oaks when you can have a mix of all different kinds of trees that can benefit all kinds of wildlife at different times of the year.

 

[Steve Oehlenschlager]

The Forster thinks we should get some great regeneration but I think there are a few acres where the Popple suckers won't grow since there are no mature trees within 75 yards. That's ok because the hazelnut brush will go gang busters and probably get some good oak regeneration in those areas. My guess is that 90% of what we want the Popple to come back in will.

 

[Steve Oehlenschlager]

One the above topic of creating a savanna. NEVER going to happen after this cut with all those Popple suckers growing an inch a day all summer! I do have an area of about 3 acres where I have been trying to create a savanna. When the logger come I will have them take a few select trees out so I get more light for my grass. Been a lot of work but getting there. Finally getting the brush killed back from mowing every year. Was filled with prickly ash. Ideally would like to burn but not enough grass to keep a fire going yet other than leaf clutter. Got great built in fire breaks. The whole idea on creating this was to have deer avoid this area except for night so they would funnel through another area. Seems to be working so far. Area is unhurt able and bumping deer there is unavoidable so I figured it was best to make it deer unfriendly in the fall. They use it in the summer but by fall they don't.

 

[bwoods11]

Steve--how did your logging project go? Also, was there much of a market for the oak and aspen. I am looking at a cut next winter (possibly) in MN.

 

[Steve Oehlenschlager]

The just started logging last week. I took a bunch of pictures on Tuesday. They are about 1/3 done. I will go back 2 more times to get more shots as they progress. I will post a bunch of pictures then. Looks weird now but I know it will be good in the end. On a side note Virtually zero food remains from my plots. 14 Acres total Corn, Beans, Turnips, Clover. It was eaten to the ground. It was one of our best seasons ever and when I was there on Tuesday I found 1 set of tracks from the last snow (5 Days Ago). My deer are all gone......The wolves are back in the area!!!! Normally we winter in excess of 30 deer on that piece of land. My cousin has heard them howling!!!

 

[bwoods11]

Thanks for the update, would love to see the pictures!

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

On the public land I grouse hunt in rusk county will, it seems like they go through and clear cut all aspen and 50% of the oaks in one cut frequently. It turns into a grouse paradise in 5-10 years with big oaks for acorns and thick aspen for cover. If you really like grouse, I'd pick a few random 1/4+ acre areas with good shrub growth and cut down most other trees there. Including aspens and oaks. After 10-15 years, those shrub thickets will hold all the grouse, but if they are shaded out there won't be many grouse. I find tons of grouse in those hidden pockets on public land. I'd also recommend planting some red splendor crabapples in those future shrub thickets.