Lets Talk about what can be done to control weeds in a no-till situation.

Foggy47

5 year old buck +
I've been watching "The back 40" by Mark on Youtube since I started on my no-till journey a few years ago. He also has light soils and uses a "regular" drill as a no-till affair like a few others here. (Mark uses a Tar River 3 point drill....about $3,500 IIRC). And....just like Mark I have had my share of weed issues to control in my clover and always searching for a solution and timing.

I'm including his very recent video here to form a basis of discussion for us "no till guys" to see if we can collectively solve these weed issues. I have horsetail concerns too. Watch and comment on your ideas?
 
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This year I spot sprayed some thistle and mullein in June....by just driving through my standing rye / clover to get to the weeds. The rye mostly stood back up. Then I roller crimped in Mid July......and a week later checked for weeds. Spotty clover was coming in......and so were some weeds. I used Glyphosate in some areas to terminate and / or set back the clover in order to drill brassica / clover which I did just recently. In better clover areas I used Imox to take out the weeds and also drilled a brassica mix into the clovers.

I think I did a good job of controlling the weeds but I did see a bit of mares tail again this week. (Might be able to take the tops off next week with the flail mower (?) but will see if it's an issue next week).

This year we are getting adequate rains.....so my plans are working out. Last year same effort.....no rain....and not good results.
 
No-till varies a lot. I’ve never tilled a plot and have also never used a no-till drill. I’ve skipped herbicide application at times depending on weed density but I don’t think I’ll ever be able to completely remove herbicide and hope to produce a reasonable plot.


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This year I spot sprayed some thistle and mullein in June....by just driving through my standing rye / clover to get to the weeds. The rye mostly stood back up. Then I roller crimped in Mid July......and a week later checked for weeds. Spotty clover was coming in......and so were some weeds. I used Glyphosate in some areas to terminate and / or set back the clover in order to drill brassica / clover which I did just recently. In better clover areas I used Imox to take out the weeds and also drilled a brassica mix into the clovers.

I think I did a good job of controlling the weeds but I did see a bit of mares tail again this week. (Might be able to take the tops off next week with the flail mower (?) but will see if it's an issue next week).

This year we are getting adequate rains.....so my plans are working out. Last year same effort.....no rain....and not good results.

Give me a list of weeds and I’ll check the Bible when I get home.


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This year I spot sprayed some thistle and mullein in June....by just driving through my standing rye / clover to get to the weeds. The rye mostly stood back up. Then I roller crimped in Mid July......and a week later checked for weeds. Spotty clover was coming in......and so were some weeds. I used Glyphosate in some areas to terminate and / or set back the clover in order to drill brassica / clover which I did just recently. In better clover areas I used Imox to take out the weeds and also drilled a brassica mix into the clovers.

I think I did a good job of controlling the weeds but I did see a bit of mares tail again this week. (Might be able to take the tops off next week with the flail mower (?) but will see if it's an issue next week).

This year we are getting adequate rains.....so my plans are working out. Last year same effort.....no rain....and not good results.

I like his videos. I have had the same experience as him.

The WR does a good job of weed & grass suppression because of allopathic nature. In my case, once I killed the WR, weeds & grasses seem to take over.

I commented in a previous thread that for 3-4 years I tried the "no till", don't spray, etc. approach. I went heavy on the minimum soil disturbance, diversified seed mix approach, soil building, OM building methods to produce thatch which was supposed to reduce/eliminate weeds. It did not.

These goals are still very important; however, at the end of the day I need a productive food plot to produce food. I don't mind some weeds and not looking to be on Food Plotters magazine cover, but the grasses like foxtail just take over.

This year I planted RR soy beans just so I could have a food source growing and be able to spray. My fields were a mess and completely over grown with weeds and grasses. I have sprayed 2 weeks ago and got a good kill. The beans are spindly because of the competition. I am now over seeding with clover and forage turnips. I will spread WR around 2nd week of September.
 
My .02 on weed control and plots. Whether you are doing no till, throw and pray, tillage, the control lies on the distinction of goals. If you are trying to achieve a multi species, all benefiting, holistic goal, you will likely have to live with weeds and hope they don’t consume your plot. You also probably also need to accept your plot is likely not going to be a warm season deer destination unless you are in a very poor area. I’ve never seen a plot like that outcompete a “cleaner plot” or row crop. I absolutely think deer will use but I don’t think they will camp out in it. Im probably skewing my bias towards mature bucks, maybe a doe group would but honestly im not putting in a bunch of time and effort and money for that. I believe where they can, deer are going to be attracted to low hanging fruit of summer crops and/or highly nutritious, most likely mono culture, destination plot. Like a big clover, vetch, pea/lab lab type deal.
The key to me in warm season is planting something that gives you the ability to control weeds. In my neck of the woods if you don’t, you will lose your plot. I don’t care how strategic you are, you will. That why I prefer a single crop warm season planting. I will do perennial clover in most plots and others I will do jointvetch. In both of those I can control 90% of weeds with the combo of cleth and 2-4db. If my clover gets bad I can even run a gly application once a summer.
Cool season opens the door for some more mixes but generally my clover is still going strong so I don’t mess with it. My vetch I will either kill off late August and rotate wheat, rye, clover deal. Or I will just leave it if it’s not too thick and broadcast wheat into. Vetch will still be attractive until about Oct in my area.

that’s my current thought process but I’m always open to trying new things. I don’t love herbicide, but I also don’t hate it.
 
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I think we are all in the same boat on weed controls. I rely allot on my winter rye and clover to crowd out the weeds......then the roller crimper takes out most of the taller grasses and weeds in July.....followed by herbicides a week or two later when the weeds become evident. That really gets me to just one spraying....plus the spot spraying I do in June to get a jump on thistles and mullein.

If I get another flush of weeds somewhere.....I'm going to decide if I can live with 'em or will get on em with the right herbicides. I find myself "living" with late season weeds.....and hope the early frost takes care of those issues.

At this point my herbicide choices are listed below.....and these seem to take care of everything nature has thrown at me so far:

1. Glyphosate
2. 24-D Amine
3. 24DB -Buterate
4. Clethodium
5. Imox. (first year I have used this.....and may be a preference in the future?)

6. Milestone (thistles in non-plot areas)
7. Simazine (not used - yet.....due to plant back issues)
8. Liberty (left over from my pigweed days)

Been adding some Non Ionic Surfactant or crop oil to the above herbicides and sometimes Nitrosurf.
 
Give me a list of weeds and I’ll check the Bible when I get home.


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Can you let me know what your Bible is?
 
Killing these weeds in clover is harder than in crops.In my clover/alfalfa/chicory plots I usually just mow and hope some of the weeds like marestail gets choked out or at least mowed off before they seed.
 
Killing these weeds in clover is harder than in crops.In my clover/alfalfa/chicory plots I usually just mow and hope some of the weeds like marestail gets choked out or at least mowed off before they seed.
That is an idea I was considering too. I think I have a short window that I can mow off the tops of the mares tail. From what I have been reading.....I better get on it soon.
 
2-4db is labeled for marestail
 
Yep....the only thing is....that it also takes out the chicory. That chicory always seems an issue.
Look up Octovio. It’s labeled for chicory if it’s early in the growing season I believe
 
Look up Octovio. It’s labeled for chicory if it’s early in the growing season I believe
I was just checking on the Keystone site.....and Octivo is the same as Imox......and I applied Imox a week after roller crimping my rye. The Imox took care of a variety of other weeds.....but I do not see mares tail on the label.

I think mowing the tops off next week may be my best bet right now.

EDIT: The more I read about Mares Tail (Horsetail) the more it reminds me of pigweed. Kinda sneaks in on you.....and before you know it.....it's become a real issue. Hard to control. I need to be more pro-active on weeds for sure. Likely gonna keep a weed identification book in my UTV.
 
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Can you let me know what your Bible is?

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Great info on the Marestail S.D. I'm going to my land right now to survey what I got.....and mow the tops off that Marestail. I'll snap a few pics.
 
Here are some pics of what I am dealing with. Not real sure if I got Marestail or Horsetail or some of each? I do not have a widespread problem....yet. Just one area....and I did mow the tops off the ones in my plots. Hope I am not scattering more seeds. This is one area where I had pigweed at one time too. Some of these newer weed varieties are a bit concerning.

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Marestail blew up in my plots the past couple years. It either blew in from the neighboring pollinator crp plots or came in my rye bags, guessing both. Now I have another problem.
 
I have only ever used a disc on ground that was ready to farm.

But I mostly grow grass and clover with some alfalfa.

My ego weed trimmer, and my new DR self propelled strimmer, and my brush hog get a lot of duty.

I like milestone, 24 D , glyphosate. But I don’t spray as much now I mow and strim.
 

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Here are some pics of what I am dealing with. Not real sure if I got Marestail or Horsetail or some of each? I do not have a widespread problem....yet. Just one area....and I did mow the tops off the ones in my plots. Hope I am not scattering more seeds. This is one area where I had pigweed at one time too. Some of these newer weed varieties are a bit concerning.

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I believe that is all marestail. It is best mowed after establishing a seed head but before seeds are viable. If mowed too early it will grow several new leaders and need to be mowed again after seed heads establish.
 
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