Late dropping apples for Deer
- Thread starter Luongo43
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bigboreblr
5 year old buck +
What you graft up already?
Lots of good apples / crabapples out there. Some hold on too well. We have a scion exchange tthread that usually starts begining of the year. Besides scion, you can buy a tree online and trim it a bit for a few scions. Bought galarina and sundance last spring and grafted a few to some m111's. They took well. Got 3 sundances from 1 sundance bareroot. Grafting is fun, but you get a year or two ahead of the game with bareroot trees. Worth the price in my opinion.
no experience with mature galarina, but they hold well onto the tree. I planted three and have a 4th one in a grow pot to put on hunting land a half hour east of utica.
Ny has a pretty wide range of zones. Also, the usda zone were redone this year. Adirondacks get the polar vortexes every few years. On average its a zone 4 place where my clubs camp is. But, it still get's -30 or worse up there. Even worse was last year -38 deg night with 3 inches of snow cover or so. Saint Lawrence nursery or fedco sell trees for zone 3 or zone 2. I mover by stillwater reservoir north of old forge.
Saint Lawrence has all winter hangover, inter wildlife, and violi's hanging crab. They recently added a big deer crab. I ordered from them this year all those varieties.
whitetail crabs has 30-06 that isn't bad. They also have droptine, but it gets cedar apple rust bad. Which is the biggest tree problem in NY mostly. Enterprise isn't bad. Redfield can be good. Yates isn't bad.
There's tons of other carbapples that hold well into the winter too. Turning pont, coutrhouse crab, big dog. Hear ome opinions before you take a dive into the tree. I tend to prefer more well known varieties. disease resistance is known and more importantly bloom times. Seems to be a hassle for me because I live right by the hudson river. The soil warms up a bit faster by the river, but the wind can blow a wrench into your spring tree plans. I try to keep only bloom group 3 and 4 varieites. Extended bloom times is another trait to look for too.
IF you don't get what you need, 39th parallel nursery has decent prices and selection on scion.
Didnt get the scion you wanted, just plant the rootstock and graft next year or next 2 or 3 years and topwork. Although suspectible to cedatr apple rust, M111 rootstock is basically northern spy. I am planting a failed graft on a m111 this fall and seeing what happens. Cedar apple rust is really bad by me and I am near several orchards and their pests, but will grow the m111 to maturity to see drop times and bloom times.
I am grafting onto 10 siberian crabapple rootstock from saint lawrence nursery. I am planting 2 or 3 seedlings and letting them become mature trees on their own and see what happens.
Ask people you know who hunt if there's feral trees in the area that are good to graft. Thought I had a good one, but it's biennnial though.
Turkey creek in kansas has alot of varieties mentioned above.
Lots of good apples / crabapples out there. Some hold on too well. We have a scion exchange tthread that usually starts begining of the year. Besides scion, you can buy a tree online and trim it a bit for a few scions. Bought galarina and sundance last spring and grafted a few to some m111's. They took well. Got 3 sundances from 1 sundance bareroot. Grafting is fun, but you get a year or two ahead of the game with bareroot trees. Worth the price in my opinion.
no experience with mature galarina, but they hold well onto the tree. I planted three and have a 4th one in a grow pot to put on hunting land a half hour east of utica.
Ny has a pretty wide range of zones. Also, the usda zone were redone this year. Adirondacks get the polar vortexes every few years. On average its a zone 4 place where my clubs camp is. But, it still get's -30 or worse up there. Even worse was last year -38 deg night with 3 inches of snow cover or so. Saint Lawrence nursery or fedco sell trees for zone 3 or zone 2. I mover by stillwater reservoir north of old forge.
Saint Lawrence has all winter hangover, inter wildlife, and violi's hanging crab. They recently added a big deer crab. I ordered from them this year all those varieties.
whitetail crabs has 30-06 that isn't bad. They also have droptine, but it gets cedar apple rust bad. Which is the biggest tree problem in NY mostly. Enterprise isn't bad. Redfield can be good. Yates isn't bad.
There's tons of other carbapples that hold well into the winter too. Turning pont, coutrhouse crab, big dog. Hear ome opinions before you take a dive into the tree. I tend to prefer more well known varieties. disease resistance is known and more importantly bloom times. Seems to be a hassle for me because I live right by the hudson river. The soil warms up a bit faster by the river, but the wind can blow a wrench into your spring tree plans. I try to keep only bloom group 3 and 4 varieites. Extended bloom times is another trait to look for too.
IF you don't get what you need, 39th parallel nursery has decent prices and selection on scion.
Didnt get the scion you wanted, just plant the rootstock and graft next year or next 2 or 3 years and topwork. Although suspectible to cedatr apple rust, M111 rootstock is basically northern spy. I am planting a failed graft on a m111 this fall and seeing what happens. Cedar apple rust is really bad by me and I am near several orchards and their pests, but will grow the m111 to maturity to see drop times and bloom times.
I am grafting onto 10 siberian crabapple rootstock from saint lawrence nursery. I am planting 2 or 3 seedlings and letting them become mature trees on their own and see what happens.
Ask people you know who hunt if there's feral trees in the area that are good to graft. Thought I had a good one, but it's biennnial though.
Turkey creek in kansas has alot of varieties mentioned above.
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This is an incredible response thank you so much for this information. I am located in the Hudson Valley. Most of the rootstock i have experimented with is M.111 and Scion I collect from an apple tree I have on my property not really sure the type. I am debating buying a man apple tree that I can just use for scions for years to come.
Teeder
5 year old buck +
Native Hunter
5 year old buck +
Forum member Chainsaw (Dave) who passed away owned 600 acres in New York that is mostly covered with wild apple trees. I used to communicate with him a lot, and he sent me scions from some of his trees. While he had many outstanding apple trees, the one that stood out to him above all others was Turning Point. It made incredible crops for him. The drop time started in mid October and extended past the end of December into the next year.
I have a young one planted down here and have no idea how it will do this far south, but if I lived in NY I definitely would want several of those. Another one that came from his place is Sweet November. My young tree had about 4 of those apples this year, and they looked great.
I have a young one planted down here and have no idea how it will do this far south, but if I lived in NY I definitely would want several of those. Another one that came from his place is Sweet November. My young tree had about 4 of those apples this year, and they looked great.
Derek Reese 29
5 year old buck +
That drop time chart is really helpfulI tend to use Bluehill Nursery for my fruit trees. They have a handy little drop time chart that's a great to ponder over.
Home
As we all know diversity is very important when planting for deer and growing fruit trees for whitetails is no different.bluehillwildlifenursery.com
PatinPA
5 year old buck +
It is. I've planned my apple purchases from him to drop from september into january so there are constantly apples dropping at my place. Probably have to adjust it for the northern growing zones. My place is 1/2 hour from blue hill though so it works out perfectly. Now I just need my apple trees to get a few years on them.
BrushyPines
5 year old buck +
I don't have enough experience with my TPs to give a thorough review, I planted them 2 years ago. I was very surprised at how long it takes them to leaf out though. It's around 2-4 weeks after all of my other apples. I'm not sure if that correlates with drop times or not. They have grown well and have put on a lot of growth in 2 years as poor as my sandy soil is.
Derek Reese 29
5 year old buck +
2nd leaf TP (one with the bright ID tag)in the middle of my food plot..probably 12’ tall and good growth but no fruit yet..hoping for some next year..definitely one of the latest to leaf out..both years I’ve wondered if it’s gonna wake up!
bigboreblr
5 year old buck +
Hudson Vallet is zone 5/6. PRetty much grow anything you want. Enoughc hill hours for most any apple. As said before on here, bluehill has alot of nice crabapples and folks on here have experience with them too. Dolgo is good rootstock too. M7 and G890 are good ones to try out too. A bit smaller, but bears fruit younger. IF you don't have alot of room, you can put them closer together too. M7 is another good one for heavier clay soils too.
Franklin cider is one that folks seem to find ok on here too. I have one at home. See how I do with scions from the exchange. IF I am a bit light, I will graft more than 1 for camp in the adirondacks.
Do not disregard early apples too. Williams pride, kerr, chestnut, trailman, and giving redfree a try hopefully. You can pick some apples and not isturb deer close to hunting season. Get the deer hooked on their sweet tooth too. So they come back more more apples when acorns are abundant.
Franklin cider is one that folks seem to find ok on here too. I have one at home. See how I do with scions from the exchange. IF I am a bit light, I will graft more than 1 for camp in the adirondacks.
Do not disregard early apples too. Williams pride, kerr, chestnut, trailman, and giving redfree a try hopefully. You can pick some apples and not isturb deer close to hunting season. Get the deer hooked on their sweet tooth too. So they come back more more apples when acorns are abundant.
bigboreblr
5 year old buck +
That is definitely good for late frosts. Oddly enough, some of the real early apples are late to leaf out too. Pristine seems to be one of those.
Diesel5610
5 year old buck +
Lots of good suggestions. I have several Turning Points but none have fruited yet, a few should next year. Winter Wildlife, All Winter Hangover, Bluehill Prime Time, Roadhill crab and Ed’s Crazy Crab are some that I have that I expect to be good late season but can’t report on how well they hold yet. My Prime Times got their first apples this year and are holding well so far and look good.
I have a few Wicksons that I am impressed with, they hold really well into November and December here in Western NY. I also have Franklin Cider and Goldrush that really hold into late season, almost too well. I have them holding into January with lots never dropping and shriveling on the tree.
You are welcome to scions from anything I have, just remind me around January sometime.
I have a few Wicksons that I am impressed with, they hold really well into November and December here in Western NY. I also have Franklin Cider and Goldrush that really hold into late season, almost too well. I have them holding into January with lots never dropping and shriveling on the tree.
You are welcome to scions from anything I have, just remind me around January sometime.
I really appreciate that!! Much better than waisting money on scions and shipping from these nurseries!!
tullybonnie11
Yearling... With promise
Great post topic here. My brother and I have been grafting, observing parent trees and progeny for disease resistance, as well as tracking drop times for numerous varieties for the past several years. We have several nursery beds and grow bags at this point with grafts from each year, as well as a planted orchard for the deer.
To answer the question, Black Twig has been our unquestioned winner. My brother’s property is in CAR country in the Finger Lakes and Black Twig is unafflicted with deep green leaves on both the mother and grafts. Unlike Liberty, it is not prone to become chlorotic in the slightest, even with some of our plantings in marginal soils. Scab is nonexistent on foliage, and since it’s a deer tree (for us), scab on the fruit is not a major concern. Having said that, fruit is well formed and not disfigured from scab, as that can happen when scab susceptibility is high. It clearly has some resistance to it. It is a triploid, so it needs pollen from two other apple trees (the only weakness that we have identified), but it also has triploid vigor. The grafts, on m111, antonovka, and seedling stock are all 6-7’ in just one growing season. We have some in nursery beds as well as roottrapper 3 gallon bags. It has outpaced every other variety we are propagating by significant margins. As for drop time, it begins dropping in mid November and continues into December, with many persisting into winter. It never takes a year off for blossoming and fruiting as well; no biennialism with it. The mother tree (likely pushing 100 years old) is in my brother’s yard and is an absolute destination for the local deer; generations of deer have learned of this tree and visit it a ton, including mature bucks in daylight. It is not a bad fresh eating or baking apple for humans as well. As for hardiness, we are currently propagating them in both zone 5a (brother’s place) and 5b (my house). The mother tree survived -14 air temperature in the 2015/16 polar vortex and surely survived lower temperatures in the 20th century.
We have evaluated (and continue to do so) numerous cultivars over the years and this has shined brighter than many cultivars that claim disease resistance and the like. Black Twig is authentic with superior disease resistance. We confirmed the cultivar of the mother tree through Dr. Peace at Washington State with genetic testing of plant material. Reading its history, it was apparently Andrew Jackson’s favorite apple.
All in all, it is the real deal. I’m honestly surprised it isn’t discussed with any frequency on here more often.
To answer the question, Black Twig has been our unquestioned winner. My brother’s property is in CAR country in the Finger Lakes and Black Twig is unafflicted with deep green leaves on both the mother and grafts. Unlike Liberty, it is not prone to become chlorotic in the slightest, even with some of our plantings in marginal soils. Scab is nonexistent on foliage, and since it’s a deer tree (for us), scab on the fruit is not a major concern. Having said that, fruit is well formed and not disfigured from scab, as that can happen when scab susceptibility is high. It clearly has some resistance to it. It is a triploid, so it needs pollen from two other apple trees (the only weakness that we have identified), but it also has triploid vigor. The grafts, on m111, antonovka, and seedling stock are all 6-7’ in just one growing season. We have some in nursery beds as well as roottrapper 3 gallon bags. It has outpaced every other variety we are propagating by significant margins. As for drop time, it begins dropping in mid November and continues into December, with many persisting into winter. It never takes a year off for blossoming and fruiting as well; no biennialism with it. The mother tree (likely pushing 100 years old) is in my brother’s yard and is an absolute destination for the local deer; generations of deer have learned of this tree and visit it a ton, including mature bucks in daylight. It is not a bad fresh eating or baking apple for humans as well. As for hardiness, we are currently propagating them in both zone 5a (brother’s place) and 5b (my house). The mother tree survived -14 air temperature in the 2015/16 polar vortex and surely survived lower temperatures in the 20th century.
We have evaluated (and continue to do so) numerous cultivars over the years and this has shined brighter than many cultivars that claim disease resistance and the like. Black Twig is authentic with superior disease resistance. We confirmed the cultivar of the mother tree through Dr. Peace at Washington State with genetic testing of plant material. Reading its history, it was apparently Andrew Jackson’s favorite apple.
All in all, it is the real deal. I’m honestly surprised it isn’t discussed with any frequency on here more often.
If you didn't know, Blue Hill isn't that far of a ride from you. You can pick up trees, and they won't be trimmed for shipping.
Teeder
5 year old buck +
A word of caution:I tend to use Bluehill Nursery for my fruit trees. They have a handy little drop time chart that's a great to ponder over.
Home
As we all know diversity is very important when planting for deer and growing fruit trees for whitetails is no different.
Pondering the drop time chart while enjoying a bit of good bourbon could result in buying more trees than you have spaces to put them. Just sayin'.
Native Hunter
5 year old buck +
The drop time chart is great. What I have learned is that in my location you typically have to adjust the times by about 5 to 6 weeks earlier for apples and pears. That is probably true for persimmons and less likely to be true for chestnuts.
That's interesting. What do you think causes it? Elevation? Terrain?
