Help with a gun shy dog

[boardmaker]

Guys, I could use some ideas with a gun shy dog.

I have 2 two year old male German Shepards. Both of them were saved in some way shape or form. They are great dogs and very smart. For the most part, they listen well and are a pleasure.

One of the two is EXTREMELY gun shy. I live way out in the country, and it's several miles to the nearest neighbor. If he hears a loud shot, he will just run whatever direction he is pointing until he finds a house. Deer rifle season is a PITA. I wind up putting him in the basement for the season. Even the sight of a gun, pistol or rifle, he gets nervous.
The other dog is fine. He gets a little uneasy, but only because the other is scared. I don't think he would be a problem if the first dog didn't run.

Things I've tried:
I bought a gamo air rifle. I had hopes he would watch me shoot it and slowly get used to it. That's not really happening. He sees me with it out, and he will walk away and hide. I have slowly introduced him to it. A little here. A little there. And it doesn't seem to be getting any better. I had plans on stepping up from that to a 22 and slowly getting bigger.

The dogs are kinda sorta leash trained. They will let me leash them, but it's not their favorite. So I've thought to leash him a whole day and just shoot shoot shoot. It seems a little cruel, but it's for his own good. I'm afraid he will hate the leash from that point on and possibly run once I do let him free.

I had the idea of electronic collar, but I don't think that would work for gun shy. The dogs respond pretty good to most other basic commands. They can be at times a little high strung, but they're still pretty young.

I also do not have a dog kennel. I've never had a tied up or kenneled dog. We've always let them have freedom. It would be very hard for me to consider either of these as a solution.

He is probably the best dog I've ever had. This is his only hurdle. Any Ideas guys? I would love to break him of this.

Thanks
Lucas

 

[kabic]

I thought I read once to make noise when feeding him. .start off not very load and work your way up to a gun shot (blanks or starter pistol)

 

[Freeborn]

I would go out to the bird hunting forums or dog training forums as there are very knowlegable trainers on those forums.

Here is a product I found by doing a search on curing gun shy dogs. I have heard of using subliminal sounds but don't know if this is a good product or not. I'm just providing it as a reference.

http://www.gundogsupply.com/gunshycure.html

I know it can be done so I would not give up.

 

[boardmaker]

Thanks guys.

Up till now, I have always just kept their dog bowls full and let them eat at will. I may have to change that.

 

[Honker]

That's a tough one, but it can be done. I would definitely not do the shoot shoot shoot method.

I would use positive reinforcement. Find out what is his driver, (food, toy, ect.)(don't skimp on the treat, make it something he LOVES), get him good and tired, and then bring out a gun (make sure he's hungry). Don't shoot it the first few times, just bring it out let him investigate it a little, and treat him anytime he goes near it or doesn't react negatively (I would start in the basement, or garage, cut down the the external stimuli). Only do this about 10 minutes at a time, wait 10 minutes and repeat. When you get to the point where the dog starts to react positively move to a more open setting, the yard, a shed ect. repeat.

When he starts reacting positively at the sight of the gun or guns, start with a pellet gun firing at a distance and play with them as someone else shoots @ about a hundred yards. If he doesn't seem nervous move closer and shoot. Keep playing with him and treating ect. If he does get nervous stay at that point, and give him some time in between "sessions". Once he is comfortable with the pellet gun, move to the 22 and repeat at a distance and work closer. Work your way up calibers or to a shotgun. You're not going to fix it in a day, it will take time. If you can get him conditioned to hearing the shot and getting a treat/retrieve or toy you'll have it down.

 

[Reagan]

Honker is right on. What ever you do don't buy an E collar. They are great tools but they aren't magic. If used improperly it can really screw up a dog. I don't see any way an e collar can be used to make a dog not fear something.

When I trained my first retriever, I started with a .410 fired a a distance the moment I threw a dummy for retrieving. By that time my dog was crazy about retrieving and would rather do that than eat. I could tell that the sound did scare my dog a little but he quickly focused on the dummy falling to the ground. Eventually that dog thought the sight and sound of a gun were the best things in the world.

You don't necessarily have to use retrieving. Use what ever the dog loves.

It will take time, introduce and train in small doses. You can not rush it.


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[j-bird]

Interesting thread - I have a dog that is the same way. She panics and slinks away even when you make a gun with your hand like when you was a kid. She doesn't even like my compound bow! She however doesn't run away - she finds the furthest corner of the house and hides (as much as you can hide a 60 pound dog). She has never been forcibly exposed to gun fire that I am aware of and we have had her since a pup. I have one dog that doesn't mind the gun - but once the first shot goes off she makes herself scarce as well, but doesn't really panic. My stupid coon dog/beagle mix.....he will lay in front of the target and look at you like your the one with an issue! He knows the gun means "outside" and he LOVES "outside".

I have NEVER used any of my dogs for hunting purposes.

 

[boardmaker]

Based off the responses, I have an idea.

I have a shop next to the house the dogs are allowed to hang out in. It's my woodworking shop, so I spend a good amount of time in there. I have an old iphone that I can Bluetooth to my shop radio. I think I'm going to record some clapping and or gunshots with the voice memo feature on like a 15 minute loop and set it up to repeat. Then , just let that play all day while slowly turning up the volume over a couple days.

I'd say his favorite thing to do is riding in the back of the truck. I may start keeping my air rifle back there while we go for rides.

I also forgot to mention, thunder makes him nervous, but he won't run. However, I can bang a hammer all day long.

I think this is a good start. I'm going to make as many loud bang/boom noises as possible.

 

[Reagan]

Banging the hammer happens in the shop? He likes the shop so the hammer is fun time.

I think your strategy may work. One thing to keep in mind, don't pay any attention to him when it is noisy. Ignore the sound he he will learn to as well.


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[Bill]

A gun dog forum is a good idea.

I believe I read once that a .22 or starter pistol actually has a higher pitched crack than a shotgun to a dogs ear.

May want to read up on that before going to a .22.

Sounds like you got your dogs with some age on them. When I get a new pup we spend a lot of time at the gun range watching guys shoot skeet or blue rock.

 

[boardmaker]

A gun dog forum is a good idea.

I believe I read once that a .22 or starter pistol actually has a higher pitched crack than a shotgun to a dogs ear.

May want to read up on that before going to a .22.

Sounds like you got your dogs with some age on them. When I get a new pup we spend a lot of time at the gun range watching guys shoot skeet or blue rock.

Both dogs were over 1 when we got them. Both were house dogs in the city. Unfortunately, the previous owners underestimated how much attention and space a young dog needs. We took them in and trained them the basics. The hardest part was breaking their bad habits. This is one of the last obstacles.
We went for a ride this evening. He didn't mind the rifle back there at all. Then when we got home, I leashed him in the truck bed and made him walk the rifle into the shop with me. He was a little nervous. Once we put the gun up, we walked back to the truck. Once we were away from the gun, he was good again.

So, it's a good start.

 

[Freeborn]

Both dogs were over 1 when we got them. Both were house dogs in the city. Unfortunately, the previous owners underestimated how much attention and space a young dog needs. We took them in and trained them the basics. The hardest part was breaking their bad habits. This is one of the last obstacles.
We went for a ride this evening. He didn't mind the rifle back there at all. Then when we got home, I leashed him in the truck bed and made him walk the rifle into the shop with me. He was a little nervous. Once we put the gun up, we walked back to the truck. Once we were away from the gun, he was good again.

So, it's a good start.

I have had 3 hunting dogs over the years and I started all of them when they were very young (10 weeks or so). A dog and particularly a puppy has very little attention span. I would start in the hallway of my home with all the doors closed so they have to come directly back to me. I would throw their favorite toy and start with clapping. After a couple weeks i would mix in a cap gun with my clapping. I would show the puppy the cap gun and like potty training make it fun and yell positive comments. I would even let the puppy chew on the cap gun. I would use the cap gun to the point where I could fire the cap gun multiple times directly at them and they would be trying to chew on the cap gun. Keep it all fun. Once I had the puppy ready for a 22 I would let the puppy get a distance away from me and then shoot the 22 and once again like potty training yell positive comments and let the puppy smell the 22. I never shot a gun near the dog unexpectedly. Once I thought the puppy was ready I did the same steps with the shotgun always praising the dog and making the situation positive. All of my dogs are rock steady around a gun and equate a shot to a down bird.

This has always worked for me and I pretty sure I got the idea from one of the bird hunting forums. I mention all of this as dogs are like a 4 year old, make it all positive and if you have to embellish it I would. I would also get your other dog involved with the behavior and see if it helps with your gun shy dog.

Good luck!

 

[UP Powers]

find the best and most favorite toy.

Play with the dog and the toy. play fetch and throw the toy. Get a pack of lady finger or firecrakers. light and drop in a metal milk can or barrel. Sound will muffle. If dog cowers or runs away, RARE. STOP, start again tomorrow. Don't BREAK the dog with repeated attempts over and over that day. You will make the condition worse. If dog is still ok with it. Play with the dog with fetch and muffle the sounds with the can. If the dog is good after a week of this. Hold a gun and muffle the crackers in can. Next week. Have a 410 or 20 gauge. NO RIFLES!! Report is to sharp. Play fetch fire. Dog should be fine.

If the dog is very gun shy, you may need a month of crackers in the can.

 

[boardmaker]

I'm going to try that. I never really gave firecrackers a thought.

 

[boardmaker]

Just wanted to give a quick update. Over the last 4 days, I have taken the dogs for a ride in the back of the truck. I have a carpeted Bedliner so I have been putting my air rifle back there with them. He's still a little skittish if I have it in my hands. Once it's in the bed, they don't care. After the ride, I would leash the shy dog and have him walk with me to put the gun away. At first he was very scared, but after a few trips he did much better.

So tonight I asked if they wanted to go for a ride. They got excited as usual. I grabbed the gun and headed to the truck. I loaded the dogs and instead of taking off I decided to sit on the tailgate and shoot. The gun is pretty quiet. The shy one sat in the corner of the bed a little unsure. The other dog could have cared less with his tail wagging. I shot maybe 20 times. Then, we went for a ride. Once we got back home, we put the gun away.

After that, we played fetch with an antler. I played with him 10 minutes or so just to make sure he was at ease. He did great. Once we do this routine 5 more times or so, I'm going to use the high speed pellets. They break the sound barrier and crack comparable to a 22.

I've also been randomly beating a hammer and also clapping. He doesn't care about that at all. It's so strange since a hammer is quite a bit louder than a 22.

I'm just going to keep at it, and he's been improving so much.