I have thousands of persimmons on my property from seedlings to ten inch diameter. About ten percent of the mature trees produce persimmons. I have tried a limited amount of grafting - with no success. What is the simplest grafting method - that produces good results - that I should research and attempt this winter.
Grafting Persimmons
- Thread starter SwampCat
- Start date
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
Persimmons are dioecious, male and female. Male trees must be grafted to produce. The easiest graft is a bark graft on trees that are 1" - 3" in diameter. Male trees can be converted to female with grafting. Bark grafting is done when the sap is running well in the spring. In my area (7A) that is about May 10th. I like the leaves to be a bit bigger than squirrel ears. You cut the tree down. I like chest height. Here is an old thread I brought from QDM with pictures: Sex Change Operation. It has lots of details on bark grafting.
You will need scions taken dormant and stored in the fridge until grafting time. They must be taken from a female tree, so mark your fruit bearing trees this year. If you graft at the right time, bark grafting is the easiest I've found with the best success rates for me.
Thanks,
Jack
b116757
5 year old buck +
It’s the opposite on my place most persimmons seem to be female although I did look at a stand of about 5-6 yesterday that appears to be all male that is not the norm. Maybe the percentage truly is 50%/50% but it sure doesn’t seem like it to me when I’m wondering around. I know for a fact that my largest grove of 25-30 mature trees are all female and produce like crazy most years.
I actually did a count on my place a couple of years ago of what I considered to be mature trees. Out of 85 trees I looked at - six were bearing fruit - and those six are pretty consistent with fruit every year - but they dont produce enough fruit for one to ever reach the ground. The coons and possums eat every one before they fall. My neighbor has a couple of big persimmons that are loaded every year that I will use for scion collection.
MadMadHoosier
5 year old buck +
Question for you persimmon experts. I've been marking and clearing around wild persimmon trees for two years. Most of them have been found growing in the shade of some larger trees, on the eastern perimeter of a couple small hillside fields I quit mowing about 8 years ago.
Most were identified and marked with orange surveyors tape by finding persimmon fruit on the actual tree. Then I would remove vines trying to choke the trunks, and clear about 5-8 feet around some of the larger trees (2-3" diameter trunk) so they could hopefully flourish. It seems the year following such clearing the trees would have little or no fruit. The trees are definately gettting bigger, so I'm hoping it's just a one year setback for the fruit, and future years will improve the yield.
Just curious, does removing the shade around a persimmon tree growing in the wild cause some sort of stress that stunts the following years crop, or is something else going on?
Most were identified and marked with orange surveyors tape by finding persimmon fruit on the actual tree. Then I would remove vines trying to choke the trunks, and clear about 5-8 feet around some of the larger trees (2-3" diameter trunk) so they could hopefully flourish. It seems the year following such clearing the trees would have little or no fruit. The trees are definately gettting bigger, so I'm hoping it's just a one year setback for the fruit, and future years will improve the yield.
Just curious, does removing the shade around a persimmon tree growing in the wild cause some sort of stress that stunts the following years crop, or is something else going on?
b116757
5 year old buck +
Possibly it shocks the tree back into a vegitative growth stage???? Idk I’m not a botanist. Most of mine are full sun any field or pasture that doesn’t get mowed or burned regularly will have them coming up all over the place generally speaking. I’m sure I have them in shaded areas also but I have so many I don’t bother releasing those unless it’s a larger tree that produces fruit then I might help it out some. I did see a smaller shaded female yesterday while running the CAT 951 so I cleared the crap trees around it but this is pretty unusual for me so I can’t comment on the following year’s growth of released persimmons.
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
Persimmons that grow with other trees are protected from the wind by those other trees. Consequently, as they grow they are not stressed and can become more brittle. If you clear protective trees around a persimmon and get high winds it can snap. Several guys have reported that after clearing. I prefer to release persimmons slowly. I will remove other trees that are shading them and using resources a few each year over a 3 or 4 year period. This gives the tree time to be stressed by the wind a little at a time rather than all at once.
If your trees are bearing any fruit at all, they are likely female trees and releasing them will help in the long run. My persimmons that are in the open bear much more fruit than others. There are what they call "perfect" trees that have both male and female flowers but they are not common. Native hunter posted some good flower pics on his thread that differentiate male from female flowers. I'd graft any males I found in the 1" to 3" class
Thanks,
Jack
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
If that is the David Osborne article, it is the one I used as a resource. It is at least referenced in the link I posted and there may be a link to the article in it.
Thanks,
Jack
Native Hunter
5 year old buck +
In my opinion bark grafting is the best method for persimmons. You should be able to find lots of information on it.
Native Hunter
5 year old buck +
Clearing around a persimmon tree should not have a negative effect on fruiting. Persimmons can have bad fruiting years (although less than most other fruit), and I feel that's what you are seeing. However, you can cause a problem clearing around a tall, spindly tree if it is getting some bracing from another tree (as Jack eluded to above). I will go ahead and admit that I made the mistake years ago. I had a very tall persimmon that had a big cedar growing at its base. The persimmon tree was a prolific producer. I decided to help the tree out by removing the cedar. This was at a time when it was literally loaded with fruit, and within just a few days afterwards, the tree broke off about 20 feet above the ground. Lesson learned the hard way....
MadMadHoosier
5 year old buck +
Thanks for everyone’s feedback. I don’t believe they are too tall or spindly, and I only cleared out about 4-8 feet, so they still have some protection from the winds. but I’ll look again when I get up there end of the week, and be cautious with future trimming. Hopefully they will thrive the next few years.
Native Hunter
5 year old buck +
One thing to keep in mind - if they grow up not leaning on another tree, you will likely never have a problem like I described. They will self regulate their growth and not grow too tall too quickly so that their strength is compromised. It's only when they are crowded for a long time as they mature that this is likely to happen. A persimmon standing out in the open that grew up that way is a very strong tree.
b116757
5 year old buck +
Most likely they will thrive pretty much any tree you crown release is going to really benefit from it until the crowns close up again. With the exception of particular situations as stated by Native. I haven’t released many persimmons but many many oaks, walnuts and select cut hard maple stands with an eye for future generations to benefit from my logging practices not just myself.
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
Releasing persimmons may be a little different. They are an early succession type tree. I find most persimmons growing on edges. When you release an oak they are often surrounded by trees. I find most of my native persimmons growing in or on the edges of fields. The ones on the edges are mixed with other trees. When the wind blows, the movement of the persimmon is often limited by those surrounding trees when branches entangle. If you take enough stuff out they no longer have that protection. Native is right, the more mature the tree and the more support that removed suddenly the more risk. I would worry much less with younger trees.
Releasing persimmons is a definite plus in the long run, releasing larger trees slowly gives them time to adapt.
Native Hunter
5 year old buck +
Mozark is spot on about bracing for the first year, and cane is also what I use. Actually cane and duct tape is all you need.
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