grafting persimmon

[ethompson]

I have 3 fuyu persimmon that probably won't bare fruit for at least 5 more seasons. Last year I discovered an American persimmon patch in one of my hunting zones (7 trees). Young trees that all had fruit last season, not much but fruit anyways. I released those trees to sun last winter and they are looking really good. With lots of fruit. Is it possible to graft fuyu onto American persimmon? It will my first attempt at grafting, but I know I can do it. What type of graft? What materials will I need? What time of year? The AP are located on the edge of a small pond, so watering is no problem. One more thing. After opening up the canopy, it really kicked the understory to grow. Should I spray to remove understory?
Thanks for all responses. I am really pumped about this project.

 

[yoderjac]

Is it possible? Absolutely! Should you do it? Depends on your objective. If you like to eat fuyu persimmons and that is your objective, enjoy. I've had the most success in grafting persimmons that are in the 1" to 4" diameter class by cutting them down and bark grafting them. If your purpose is deer, I would not graft any American persimmon that is producing fruit. And I would never graft one over to Lotus or Kaki. Many of them are non-astringent and will be eaten by climbing animals after the fruit. Even those that are protected during development by astringency, they don't fall from the tree, so after they ripen, they will be eaten by flying and climbing creatures.

American persimmons are both protected by astringency during development and they fall from the tree when ripen. This give deer an equal shot at them as climbing creatures.

If you have persimmons growing native on your land, you don't need to worry about pollinators. They are insect pollinated and a male tree could be a mile or more away and they would still get pollinated. When I find a young persimmon in the 1" diameter class on my farm, I graft it over. You can use scions from fruiting female trees on your farm if you want more of the same. I've traded scions with others who have native trees that drop later than mine and I've used scions from named varieties to get trees that drop earlier than mine. In my soil it can take a persimmon 8 to 12 years or even more to fruit depending on conditions. If I graft over a 1" diameter seedling, it will usually produce the first fruit in the third leaf.

For details on my bark grafting with pictures, check out my sex change thread: http://www.habitat-talk.com/index.php?threads/sex-change-operation-transfered-from-qdma-forum.5547/

Thanks,

Jack

 

[ethompson]

Thanks YJ. You made me remember what I had forgotten. When I planted the fuyu persimmon, I had not heard of them not being great trees for deer. But they were already planted. I Probably won't graft now. If I do it will only be AP to AP. The fuyu are something like $4 bucks a piece at the grocery store and they are very tasty.

 

[yoderjac]

Don't get me wrong, Deer love all persimmons. If the trees are small and they can get to them, they will eat them. The problem is that small unprotected Oriental persimmon trees will take a beating and when they get large, the persimmons are out of reach of deer. I'd keep them for self consumption. I did mess with one hybrid called Nikita's Gift. It is a Virginia x Kaki cross (and I think crossback). It is astringent. I heard some reports of it falling from the tree and others of it not falling. There is no authority for naming persimmons, and trees can be different and have the same name. I decided to experiment with Nikita's Gift. I grafted it to a bunch of American Persimmon seedlings that I started from seed.

My experience so far is that it tends to form more of a bush than a tree, even on American rootstock. It produces large persimmons, delicious and very sweet when ripe. But, I don't think they are going to fall from the tree. My trees are not large enough to be sure yet, but I picked some when ripe and I really had to use a lot of force to break the stem. That does not bode well for them falling on their own. I have not seen any on the ground, but the volume of fruit is still small and deer can still reach them on the tree. I don't plan to get rid of them, but my hopes of them being a no maintenance wildlife tree like American persimmons are slowly dissipating.

Thanks,

Jack