Flood and Drain for RME 18’s?

[IkemanTx]

So, I will be hitting the whole tree propagation thing in full force next fall/winter, and I am one of those guys that needs everything figured out months in advance. Both for my peace of mind, and to have a sound idea of budget.

My job has me away out of state for 18-21 days a month, so I am wanting to come up with a bulletproof watering system for the first stage of growth. My overall plan (currently) is to split my efforts half and half between direct seeding stratified seeds, and growing RME 18 started trees out in Root Maker in-ground bags for a full season. The property I will be planting into is very heavy clay soil... typically described as black gumbo soil. I figure multiple planting methods hedges my bets some in these tough planing conditions.

For the transplanted trees, I have access to a little bit of space in a mildly heated greenhouse. (Just warm enough to keep citrus trees alive, but not full on heated like a production house). I, however, will rarely be able to get up there and water things. I also don’t want to use up space AND need to beg watering services from my parents who plan to spend weeks at a time traveling in the first couple years of their retirement.

As such, I am thinking that a flood and drain system on a timer may be the best choice. But, I can’t seem to find anyone who has used such a watering method with the rootmaker system. (Or any air pruning pot for that matter). I have room for about 55-65 rootmaker 8”X15” knit in-ground bags in spare garden beds here at the house where I can give supplemental water and nutrients on a timer. I’m thinking start with 4 full RME 18 trays of seedlings, pick the best 55-65 or so and transplant them into the in-ground bags to finish out the season.

My biggest problem is water and nutrients for the RME 18’s when I may not be around for a week or two at a time, so I am thinking a flood and drain system set up on a timer. My biggest concern would be in frequency of watering so as to still benefit from the root tip drying necessary in the air pruning systems while not drowning the seedling. If I am not mistaken, the medium recommended by rootmaker is basically soil-less and inert, so it should take a couple to several waterings a day and still drain out well allowing root tip drying.

Things I know I will need for such a system are

1. A deep, watertight container for the RME 18 trays to be flooded in
2. A light proof reservoir for the fluid to collect in
3. A heater for the water
4. An aeration pump for the reservoir
5. A pump on a timer to pump the water into the top container.

What have I overlooked? What things may need to be altered from what others do with RME18’s when switching over to this type of system? Can I order seed at the beginning of the season, stratify for 60 days from seed delivery, and plant into RME18’s right away to maximize the first season of growth? What time frames do I need to look at for transplanting our of the 18’s? Our farmer’s almanac last frost date (30% chance) is March 27th (zone 7B), to give a perspective of possible timeframe.

I know I am asking for a ton of specifics that will probably be best learned with experience, but I am trying to weed out any mistakes that may be obvious to those of you who have done this for a time.


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[Bill]

Couldn’t you just hook up a drip irrigation system on a timer?
The wife has a bunch of hanging plants on the porch I was constantly taking down for her to water.

Drip line at 1.5 gal per hour on a timer, hooked up to a hose and that job ended.

 

[IkemanTx]

Couldn’t you just hook up a drip irrigation system on a timer?
The wife has a bunch of hanging plants on the porch I was constantly taking down for her to water.

Drip line at 1.5 gal per hour on a timer, hooked up to a hose and that job ended.

The greenhouse isn’t plumbed with municipal water. It’s only water source is a well pump in a small lake that is only turned on during use. During winter, the line or any water hose would freeze. I figure a reservoir in the greenhouse would bypass the issue of freezing weather. I could fill it and top it off only when temps aren’t near freezing. Also, I could have the water mixed with a mild fertilizer to provide nutrients.
I know flood and drain systems are considered pretty much foolproof in the hydroponic world, and I could throw one together fairly inexpensively.


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[yoderjac]

Here are my thoughts for what they are worth. If you are working with chestnuts, they are very sensitive to watering compared to apples. I don't think a flood and drain system will work well. A few years back, I decided to experiment with dunking my rootmaker containers in a tub of rain water rather than top watering them. It is much more efficient use of water. I found it works very well with 1 and 3 gal RB2s but not so well with 18s. What happens is that when you flood 18s, mix comes out of the lower holes. Because they are so small, this adds up over time. I found some that only had about 1/2 the cell full of medium when I transplanted.

The problem with any timer for watering is that chestnuts grow fast and the amount of water they use changes quite quickly depending on stage of growth.

Last year I built a misting system for starting cuttings: http://www.habitat-talk.com/index.p...s-from-green-cuttings-building-a-mister.9311/

I plan to use it for some nut grafting I'm doing this winter, so I modified it for indoor use with a timer and a pump. That mod is near the end of the thread. The system collects, filters, and recycles water.

While this is not a fit for you, you might be able to rig something up that is similar but adapted for your application. You may not need chamber for high humidity like I do, but you could use a similar pump and nozzles. I'd first figure out how long you need the system to spray in order to saturate the cells. This will depend on how many nozzles you use and where you place them. I like this better than drip because I want to saturate and then let dry out rather than trickle for a long period.

So, at this point you will know how long to leave the system on for each watering. The next step is to figure out when to water. For this, I would suggest one of those internet cameras. I had a cheap Chinese one that I played with one year. You can rotate the camera around using controls over the internet. (BE SURE TO CHANGE THE PASSWORD FROM THE DEFAULT). You may even want to get two of them. This will allow you to view and monitor the plants from a remote location. It is not as precise as watering by weight, but if you are experienced you can tell by looking at the plants. Some trees will be more sensitive than others. If I'm lazy and have not checked by weight for a while, I watch for some of my more sensitive trees to just start to get a little leaf droop. That tells me water right now.

Now that you know it is time to water, you need a way to turn on the water. For this I'd simply buy a remote control outlet. You can control these over the internet. This would give you the option of turning it on and off from a remote location based on observation as I suggest, or programing a schedule. I think some remote control switches allow a schedule.

I don't know how much evaporation you will get using a system like this. You may want to use a larger container for water than the cut-down 5 gal buckets I used. If you go that route, the table height would need to increase.

Best of luck regardless of what you try!

Thanks,

jack

 

[yoderjac]

One more thought. Your flood and drain system may not have the same effect as me dunking 18s if you are flooding it slowly fro the bottom up. I don't know. If you decide to go this route, you could still use the internet camera and remote outlet to control when to water rather than a timer.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[IkemanTx]

I hadn’t considered losing medium. That is a great point. I like the chamber idea, just with a spray instead of misters. That would still allow me to reuse any water not absorbed by the medium.

I just figured that with access to a greenhouse, it didn’t make sense to wait until after the last frost to direct seed into the knit bags. I could jump start the process by a couple to few months and really maximize growth.


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[yoderjac]

I hadn’t considered losing medium. That is a great point. I like the chamber idea, just with a spray instead of misters. That would still allow me to reuse any water not absorbed by the medium.

I just figured that with access to a greenhouse, it didn’t make sense to wait until after the last frost to direct seed into the knit bags. I could jump start the process by a couple to few months and really maximize growth.


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Just make sure you use artificial lights. Dr. Whitcomb warns against starting trees early in a greenhouse relying on the sun. The intensity and angle is such that while top growth looks fine, root development is retarded. I have a great example. I can't find the thread on here so it must have been on the old QDM forum. Another guy and I both started pawpaws in 18s about the same time. He started his in a greenhouse with no artificial lights and I started mine in the basement under lights. When it was time to transplant and we took them out of the 18s, mine had great root development and his had very tiny roots. The tops looked about the same. He lost many of his in the RB2s and I didn't lose any.

You are spot on about replacing misting nozzles with spray nozzles. You want to saturate fairly quickly and then let them dry out.

Thanks,

Jack