First tractor research

[pilotpip]

Long post with lots of discussion points. Feel free to quote as many as you wish or have an opinion on.

My father in law's old property in the ozarks was far too hilly to utilize a tractor. We had a 1ac food plot and a couple smaller "kill plots" in the woods that I made and maintained with a tarter plow/cultipacker and swisher mower that we could pull behind my Honda pioneer or father in law's Yamaha kodiak 700. They worked well for the size of plots and terrain. New place in Northern MO is not nearly as steep, already has a 3ac clover plot that's established, a couple spots where I could make several more acres of annuals with food and cover for deer, turkeys and upland birds, rabbits, and throw in some good stuff for pollinators to make my 11 year old daughter happy. I also have to get new blinds set up, maintain roads, mow, etc.

My contribution to the effort is a lot of sweat equity. I've seen what a UTV and implements for that can do with 1ac, but realize they're maxed out. I started looking at compact tractors. I've always heard that the dealer is as important as the brand when you're dealing with the big ones. The closest Kubota dealer to the property is 45 miles away. There are no Case around, and I won't buy the Chinese stuff from RK or whoever because I want parts availability. The John Deere dealer in Missouri has 3-4 locations along the 3 hour drive from the St. Louis suburbs to the new place including one 10 minutes from my house and one about 15 miles from the new place. I know several people that have bought there and have been very happy with the service.

Based on my research, I think a John Deere 3038E meets our needs now. I don't think I need the extra lift capacity or other features of an R series tractor at either end to justify the extra expense, but I don't think I would be happy with the lower horse power for using implements. For a little more, I could sacrifice a little HP and go with a 3033R. I'd have more loader and 3pt capacity, but I don't think it would be enough to make the switch to no-till. With the projects we have to finish I don't think I can do that for a while. I drive a 1/2ton truck and already have a trailer that can handle a 3 series tractor. Would you want the PTO power? Or would you trade that for more hydraulic capacity, and a more robust frame and rear end with some creature comforts? Would I be wishing I had the power pulling a tiller or a disk that I would be missing? Mrs. Pilotpip isn't going to go for 8K more to go from a 3038E to a 3039R. I could probably convince her that a couple thousand for the 3033R would be ok over a 3038E.

What say you? I don't know what I don't know.

 

[356]

The 3038E is a great tractor, but please go with the 3033R and get the extra lifting capacity. I had the E series and it would BARELY lift a 5’ Tar River No-Til Drill. The 33 HP is not the limiting factor, plus there are plug in systems that will give your 33 HP 38 HP if you ever needed mor HP.

I had a 3025E that pulled a 5’ tiller just fine. It also did great with a 6’ brush hog. The additional R features are not that important, but the lifting capacity and more robust frame is nice. And yes, having some of the R features is nice. Either tractor will serve you well, but the R will provide additional flexibility in the future.

 

[Westwind]

My thoughts as the owner of a 5075M

Avoid the E series. Price is what you pay, value is what you get.

I don’t know what they have for standard hydraulic outlets. Start day one with the extra front hydraulic line to your loader. It is called “third function”, they will put a button on your loader controls and it is so you can run a grapple on your loader. You don’t know how much you needed a loader. Once you have a grapple you won’t know how you lived without it. On the back you want two to four outlets. I have three and I wish I had four.

All the long way of saying hydraulics matter.

Sounds like there is a good possibility you will trading up. That happens a lot. I’d rather be trading an R than an E, and in the mean time you are running a better machine.

 

[pilotpip]

Thanks for the responses. Size wise, the 3 series fits in the building that's already on the property so that's a big factor. If I decided to get a drill later I'd be upgrading to a 4 series immediately if I get the E. With the R I could probably use a smaller one.

Their QC should be better than it was a few years ago. My dad worked for a subcontractor that made the separator plates for the PTOs and transmissions in everything from the subcompacts to the monster combines for years!

I fully understand the 3rd function for the grapple, but what implements could I utilize that would take advantage of rear hydraulics and what kind of cost increase could I expect having those put on a new tractor?

 

[Westwind]

I have top link and tilt cylinders on my 3 point hitch- two outlets there. (I didn’t think I needed it until I got it!) I love thy hydraulic top link. I could do without the tilt but it is super nice for grading my gravel driveway.

I have a pull type snowblower and it has chute rotate and deflector that are both hydraulic. I think a lot of guys buy blades that have two cylynders on them but i think I would only need one since I have tilt on my hitch.

I’m probably a freak thinking I need four outlets! (And I really don’t). I think there are several kits available for the 3 series to add outlets if you are handy with stuff like that but I didn’t want to have to do it later. Third function on your loader and two rears are probably enough for most set ups.

 

[bigboreblr]

Resale value? Kubota is good. Sounds like nothing is near your camp parts wise. You break down, its going on the trailer anyway probably.

No-till drill a piece of your future?

You making plots out of woods? Digging or handling a lot of stumps?

What do you think you want to be at long term for making plots? Kind of work, acres?

Bigger tractors cost more, but do stuff faster, if time is a big issue.

Hope sketchy is this place for driving a tractor? Getting stuck, hillsides, crossing a river, etc....

Overall how big is the place?

Any other future needs you see? Digging foundation, long driveway build, septic tank install?

Owning a few used implements and renting a tractor is a very budget friendly option, if easy to do locally.

Get your ducks lined up in a row 3 acres with ATV is not bad. Spread while you disc, spray while you cultipack, etc. IF money is tight now, just use what you got. IF not too hilly, a quality cart or small tough trailer is a huge plus.

Used 2wd tractors can be found cheap if you can get away with them. Big line in the sand is you going to buy a no-till drill or not.

 

[Foggy47]

Get a tractor big enough for a drill.....IMO. If you have light soils a minimum till drill can be used to do no-till work. Kubota's a heavier duty, lifts more, and weighs more, and has a better front axel .....hp for hp....IMO. Do this!. Nuff said.

 

[pilotpip]

Resale value? Kubota is good. Sounds like nothing is near your camp parts wise. You break down, its going on the trailer anyway probably.

No Orange dealers near home or property. JD is a short drive from the property, house, and I have 2 other locations I'll pass on the drive.

No-till drill a piece of your future?

Perhaps. Probably the most likely reason for more capacity. Years away though

You making plots out of woods? Digging or handling a lot of stumps?

Previous owner had some openings for plots in the woods. That will be something I mess with but I have clearings already, and it had cattle on it at some point so there is some pasture the previous owner kept mowed that will be easy to do.

What do you think you want to be at long term for making plots? Kind of work, acres?

3ac already with established clover in it's 2nd or 3rd year. Maybe some simple kill plots in addition in the woods. Despite being northern MO it's mostly timber within several miles and adjacent to a large conservation area that does have some corn and other plantings, it sees a lot of pressure. It has a spring fed pond, and creek with water year around so my focus is going to be keeping them on the property when they get pushed off the adjacent ones. Maybe 5-6 acres of plot down the road but this year it's going to be more about setting up redneck blinds and gravel work for the next couple years while I learn the land.

Bigger tractors cost more, but do stuff faster, if time is a big issue.

I realize that, but this size range fits on my current utility trailer, and fits through the garage door on the pole barn on the structure. I also think staying with something a little smaller may be smart for learning as I have zero experience with them. I took the same approach with chainsaws, and I'm glad I did.

Hope sketchy is this place for driving a tractor? Getting stuck, hillsides, crossing a river, etc....

No crossings I need to bother with. Estabilished trails that I could drive my truck down. I don't need to bother mowing them with the tractor because we plan on keeping the swisher to tow behind the ATVs and SXS for now. The hills will be pretty much driving straight up and down.

Overall how big is the place?

85ac

Any other future needs you see? Digging foundation, long driveway build, septic tank install?

Already has a pole barn we are going to make a cabin. Going to pay to have septic installed. Water and electric already there.

Owning a few used implements and renting a tractor is a very budget friendly option, if easy to do locally.

I want something that's there, and ready to go when I have time to work. I could see renting implements. The co-op in town has a couple drills.

Get your ducks lined up in a row 3 acres with ATV is not bad. Spread while you disc, spray while you cultipack, etc. IF money is tight now, just use what you got. IF not too hilly, a quality cart or small tough trailer is a huge plus.

I have a pioneer 700-4, tarter plow/cultipacker, tow behind and hitch mounted electric spreaders. Also have a nice cart to tow with 1500lb capacity. Our previous land was way too steep to safely use a tractor on a lot of it and we made due with stuff that worked on the back of ATVs and UTVs. Money isn't tight, but I don't want to go blow it on things I won't initially use.

Used 2wd tractors can be found cheap if you can get away with them. Big line in the sand is you going to buy a no-till drill or not.

I think I need 4wd with the hills I do have, and the price for 40 year old tractors I've been looking at is stupid. 10 year old compacts hold their value, so I might as well just take advantage of the 0% financing and get a full warranty, and use some of the cash I have saved up on a

 

[bigboreblr]

I like driving a 1/2 ton alot better than heavier trucks. Sounds like you got a good plan.

How do you like the pioneer 700? Enough power for ATV implements? Looking to maybe trade in my rancher for a pioneer. Got 200 or so miles of public trails by the hunting camp.

Sometimes you find 3pt seeders like the woods pss48. A few guys have those style ones on here. Seen good used ones for 1500-2500 range.

 

[Da U.P. 'eh]

We have a 3038E and we love it. BUT, I do sometimes wish that we had swallowed a little harder and went with the 3039R. My only real disappointment is the lift capacity that you make reference to. Also, I would love to have extra hydraulics, front and back! Talk to that sweetheart that shares your life and tell her what I said.

 

[rocksnstumps]

A 3 series is maybe a bit small for 85 acres but you can probably live with the limitations. Especially if your previous point of reference is doing stuff with 4 wheelers. Others want you to spend the big bucks (but your money not theirs) while focusing only on the tractor but you have the right idea on thinking about the whole system.

I started my tractor search with focusing on best in class, robust loader capacity for a given size tractor. That given size tractor was limited on upper end by not having to upgrade my truck and existing 16 ft 7000# trailer to haul it around and spend thousands and thousands beyond the cost of a tractor. But that was based on knowing I wanted to haul it to multiple properties. If you will leave this tractor at new property virtually all the time maybe you can entertain going to bigger tractor you can't haul now and have to rely on dealer pickup for any service. But for me my hauling rig limited tractor size.

A series 4 was a step up in cost but I decided I could skip hydrostatic and go with power reverser to save a couple grand. I also didn't load the tires and let a rear implement help with weight for a number of yrs. Sure when I eventually upgraded my trailer immediately loaded the rear tires (+1100 lbs). But I made it work until that time. I also didn't get a cab. Again my budget was already stretched jumping to the series 4 size and that resulting very capable loader. Everyone has to make some compromises, do the ones that make the most sense to you. My JD 4600 was a great decision for me.

 

[Foggy47]

A 3 series is maybe a bit small for 85 acres but you can probably live with the limitations. Especially if your previous point of reference is doing stuff with 4 wheelers. Others want you to spend the big bucks (but your money not theirs) while focusing only on the tractor but you have the right idea on thinking about the whole system.

I started my tractor search with focusing on best in class, robust loader capacity for a given size tractor. That given size tractor was limited on upper end by not having to upgrade my truck and existing 16 ft 7000# trailer to haul it around and spend thousands and thousands beyond the cost of a tractor. But that was based on knowing I wanted to haul it to multiple properties. If you will leave this tractor at new property virtually all the time maybe you can entertain going to bigger tractor you can't haul now and have to rely on dealer pickup for any service. But for me my hauling rig limited tractor size.

A series 4 was a step up in cost but I decided I could skip hydrostatic and go with power reverser to save a couple grand. I also didn't load the tires and let a rear implement help with weight for a number of yrs. Sure when I eventually upgraded my trailer immediately loaded the rear tires (+1100 lbs). But I made it work until that time. I also didn't get a cab. Again my budget was already stretched jumping to the series 4 size and that resulting very capable loader. Everyone has to make some compromises, do the ones that make the most sense to you. My JD 4600 was a great decision for me.

^ It's odd - one mans dreams vs another. I went from a somewhat capable JD 3520 EHydro open station tractor......to a Kubota L3860 HSTC. I wanted the cab for comfort in any weather and added fluid to the rears. No longer can haul it with my trailer or truck.....but this tractor get's er done. Much heavier and more robust in every way. Love the cab and the HVAC. Mow in the rain.....deer flies and hornets be damned. I do like a tractor that can handle smaller size implements such as 5 and six footers.....as they do not cost as much and are plentiful. Not sure I could live without hydrostatic tranny.....so much better. Mine handles my drill without complaint. Win/win/ win. (for me)

I got about the same HP with the Kubota vs the John Deere.....but the lift capacities, weight and heavy duty nature of the Kubota will trump the John Deere by a wide margin. The 4 WD system is so superior too. Just look at the axels and cast iron.