Eau Claire deer farm escapees update........
- Thread starter wiscwhip
- Start date
Bowsnbucks
5 year old buck +
I can't understand why - in any state - there aren't stricter rules on deer farms and explicit guidelines for building the enclosures. No tall trees should be allowed within " fall " distance of any fence. And I'd love to know the details of securing urine/feces and if/how it gets into the ecosystem. How is that situation handled ??
Was this in a CWD zone in the state? FWIW, 228 deer in a 10 acre enclosure is beyond ridiculous, and numerous escape situations should have been unacceptable in the sense that there were clearly issues that should have been dealt with. Bowsnbucks: there are explicit guidelines (at least in PA), and I suspect the majority of escapes have nothing to do with trees. There is absolutely no way to secure urine/feces, and no way to deal with them once they are there.
gwm
5 year old buck +
No. The main area of CWD is about 2-2.5 hours south of where this farm is.
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dipper
Guest
Why? Because sportsman haven't called for the deer industries head! We're too busy squabbling amongst ourselves about feeding deer and population dynamics and the dnr itself. I'm not trying to publicly shame the person, but when news first broke of this farm having Cwd, it was celebrated because there would be a feeding ban. Our mentality needs to change, I tried on this site(probably in the wrong way) and ww3 erupted....
Deer farms are mostly regulated on the federal level. We always love to put our cross hairs on the dnr, and true sight is lost.
I just fear it's too late anyway:(
This is inaccurate. The states can (and do) vary greatly in terms of what is allowed, disallowed and how they enforce said rules. Thanks GWM- I didn't take the time to check out a map.
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dipper
Guest
Ok great, so how do we accomplish something? It's my understanding, in wi anyway, the dnr only has authority over fencing.
I don't think fences are the problem, but the existence of insane concentration of animals...
I think the first thing is to examine what can realistically be accomplished. If all we think we know about CWD is accurate, then we a) can't eradicate it, b) can only slow its spread to a very minimal degree and c) can only really control very few factors in the larger picture of CWD. A big problem is that, regardless who oversees enforcement, we are asking a lot from individuals who have far more responsibilities than they have time to accomplish them. Also, we are dealing largely with budget constraints that limit even further the manpower issue. Maybe those statements just sound like "doom-and-gloom", but I prefer approaching things from the real world view. Also, I am very hesitant to ever advocate for more government/laws in any case, so that factors in, as well.
Having said all that, and given societal pressures, here are some thoughts: that stocking density is ridiculous. If people exhibit poor animal husbandry, there needs to be consequences. They make us all look bad, and almost certainly pose a greater risk for disease. Any reported escapes should be investigated. If necessary, corrective actions should be required lest the oprators license be forfeited. Anyone found "cheating the system" should have their license revoked. These actions could get rid of many of the bad apples, and be a benefit to all. Lastly, any farms with CWD positive animals should double fenced if they aren't already, in lieu of indemnity payments, and those animals should become research subjects. We are losing valuable opportunities for study by killing all these animals immediately, and it makes absolutely no sense.
Also, because I have seen it discussed before, operators can't (to my knowledge) insure their animals against CWD losses. Insurance companies know there are too many risks that can't be guarded against. So, we have to remember we are dealing with real people with livelihoods at stake, many of whom are not geting rich from the industry as dipper's relatives have over the years.
Sorry so long, but you asked for it! ;)
Bowsnbucks
5 year old buck +
Jeff - Your comment on double fencing is exactly what I was thinking as I typed the post I made at #4 above. In my opinion, if any operator is going to farm deer, they should have to prevent any chance of - at minimum - tree falls knocking down fences, and digging under fences to escape. When a deer farm has the potential to spread CWD or another disease that could decimate wild populations, ALL precautions must be addressed.
I have no knowledge of prion spread in the ecosystem. I don't know how long prions last outside a living body ( for reasons of urine, feces degradation into the soil ), so I can't offer a solution to that part of the problem. I would assume there are experts that know those things, and if so, would have suggestions for mitigating those problems.
As for more laws/regs. - some situations REQUIRE them. Politicians have made the word " regulations " into an evil one - for political expediency / advantage. Anyone with a brain can see thru the smoke-screen. Ask the people around the country ( from ALL political colors ) who've had their water, air, or soil polluted to the point of health hazards if regulations are a bad thing. Joe Blow throwing a Burger King cup out the car window is unsightly - but it doesn't poison people. Ask ALL THE FOLKS who lost big money in the de-regulated banking / finance / investment industry scandals ( read: deceptive thievery ) if they like de-regulation now that they lost retirement / college money !! The same thing goes for food / water / medicine safety ........ and deer farms. It's a simple fact of life - you can't let the foxes guard the hen houses. You end up with no chickens ....... and maybe no deer.
I have no knowledge of prion spread in the ecosystem. I don't know how long prions last outside a living body ( for reasons of urine, feces degradation into the soil ), so I can't offer a solution to that part of the problem. I would assume there are experts that know those things, and if so, would have suggestions for mitigating those problems.
As for more laws/regs. - some situations REQUIRE them. Politicians have made the word " regulations " into an evil one - for political expediency / advantage. Anyone with a brain can see thru the smoke-screen. Ask the people around the country ( from ALL political colors ) who've had their water, air, or soil polluted to the point of health hazards if regulations are a bad thing. Joe Blow throwing a Burger King cup out the car window is unsightly - but it doesn't poison people. Ask ALL THE FOLKS who lost big money in the de-regulated banking / finance / investment industry scandals ( read: deceptive thievery ) if they like de-regulation now that they lost retirement / college money !! The same thing goes for food / water / medicine safety ........ and deer farms. It's a simple fact of life - you can't let the foxes guard the hen houses. You end up with no chickens ....... and maybe no deer.
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dipper
Guest
Speaking of regulation few know-a deer farmer (even one with confirmed Cwd) doesn't have to "report" a deer until it is a year old.
So every deer under a year old doesn't exist:rolleyes:
I never sold any deer, just never had any fawns...
So every deer under a year old doesn't exist:rolleyes:
I never sold any deer, just never had any fawns...
That could *sometimes* be true, dependent on when inventories are due and when on-site inspections are performed. For example, our inventories are due January 4, and inspections can be anytime after inventories are turned in. Fawns must be counted on the inventories, and therefore fawns must be accounted for by about 8 months of age at our place. Furthermore, unless those fawns are headed to a preserve, they will have to show up on someone's inventory, and their origination will have to be accounted for or lied about. The reasoning behind these rules is basically that a) fawn mortality would create a significantly larger paper trail if every fawn had to be accounted for from the day or birth and b) the conventional wisdom regarding CWD has labelled fawns a minimal CWD risk, and therefore not worth the extra hoops.
A farm with confirmed CWD should absolutely have to account for everything, at all times. Those fawns are valuable research subjects.
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