Do I need surfactant?

[Mike Castillo]

I am going to spray my field prior to planting beans. I have never used a separate surfactant or spray able ammonium sulfate before, simply because I cannot seem to find it. I plan on buying the tractor supply 41% GLY, and have hard water. Thanks!

 

[Bill]

Yes. And add it to the tank and agitate for a bit before even adding the gly to the tank otherwise the metals in the hard water can reduce the effectiveness of the gly before you add the crop oil.


Here's a good read on the subject.
https://www.no-tillfarmer.com/articles/56-why-your-glyphosate-may-not-be-working-dnt

 

[yoderjac]

I am going to spray my field prior to planting beans. I have never used a separate surfactant or spray able ammonium sulfate before, simply because I cannot seem to find it. I plan on buying the tractor supply 41% GLY, and have hard water. Thanks!

Most gly already has surfactant in it. It is not really surfactant you are looking for. You need something to bond with the minerals to keep them from bonding with the Gly. AMS works for this, but at most places like TSC you can find a liquid conditioner. You fill the tank with water first and add the AMS or conditioner and allow it to bond. Then you add the gly.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Mike Castillo]

Can you guys show me a specific product to look for? I have been having a hard time finding anything...

 

[Bill]

Crop oil
https://www.keystonepestsolutions.c...id=238&zenid=a5dfb3c08270284f567bbbfe9be1bcca

Jacks version may be cheaper

AMS
https://www.keystonepestsolutions.c..._id=90&zenid=a5dfb3c08270284f567bbbfe9be1bcca

 

[JFK52]

I spray Bucanner (41% gly) on all my RR crops. I time my first spraying so there is green showing in the fields and the planted seeds have not germinated. I have never added anything else to my 55 gallon tank. I get great results. For the second spraying, I hire the coop. They have a pickup truck with either 60 or 80 foot booms. I see from their receipt that they add anti sudsing agents and other stuff to their tank sprayers with the Roundup.

 

[yoderjac]

You can probably find an equivalent product at your local coop, but here is a link to a liquid conditioner: https://www.keystonepestsolutions.c...VYqzJxtsjb0SW5IMJqk80yqC85J1nlnqTgaAt_V8P8HAQ

I ended up just buying a 50lb bag of water soluble AMS (Ammonium Sulfate) from the local coop. I throw a handful or two into the tank before I add the water. The spray from the hose provides sufficient agitation for it to dissolve by the time the tank is full enough to add the glyphosate.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[yoderjac]

I spray Bucanner (41% gly) on all my RR crops. I time my first spraying so there is green showing in the fields and the planted seeds have not germinated. I have never added anything else to my 55 gallon tank. I get great results. For the second spraying, I hire the coop. They have a pickup truck with either 60 or 80 foot booms. I see from their receipt that they add anti sudsing agents and other stuff to their tank sprayers with the Roundup.

The results you get will depend on the chemistry of your water. If you have good water, nothing is generally required to be added to most brands of glyphosate as most come with surfactant.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[yoderjac]

Crop oil
https://www.keystonepestsolutions.c...id=238&zenid=a5dfb3c08270284f567bbbfe9be1bcca

Jacks version may be cheaper

AMS
https://www.keystonepestsolutions.c..._id=90&zenid=a5dfb3c08270284f567bbbfe9be1bcca

Sorry, I missed your post.

 

[Tap]

I think it was Gallow that had an excellent thread (on the old defunct forum??) on using AMS to help reduce glyphosate failure.
I seem to remember that, in some cases, the AMS needs to be added to the water at least several hours before the guy is added, maybe even overnight?
Does anyone else remember the details in that thread?

 

[Bill]

Sorry, I missed your post.

That's old age. I miss stuff all the time.

I think it was Gallow that had an excellent thread (on the old defunct forum??) on using AMS to help reduce glyphosate failure.
I seem to remember that, in some cases, the AMS needs to be added to the water at least several hours before the guy is added, maybe even overnight?
Does anyone else remember the details in that thread?

I do, Doug is wealth of knowledge. Sometimes his post were hard for me to follow but I miss his advice.

 

[yoderjac]

I think it was Gallow that had an excellent thread (on the old defunct forum??) on using AMS to help reduce glyphosate failure.
I seem to remember that, in some cases, the AMS needs to be added to the water at least several hours before the guy is added, maybe even overnight?
Does anyone else remember the details in that thread?

Doug was kind enough to take a look at my soil sample reports, chat with me, and make some recommendations. One of them was using AMS to provide the sulfur that was low in some of my fields. He said to be sure to get the water soluble form so that I could use it with gly applications easily as well. My memory may be faulty, but I think the reference to letting it sit over night was if you used non-water soluble AMS. Granular AMS will dissolve in water but it takes more time. When I throw the water soluble stuff in, it dissolves quickly. Once in solution, it doesn't take long to bond with the free ions. I believe he was suggesting that you can put non-water soluble AMS in water and let it sit overnight to dissolve and then pouring that liquid in with the water in your tank and agitating. I could be wrong, but that is my recollection.

Keep in mind that when we are talking about increasing the effectiveness of gly, there are different approaches depending on the place in the path you want to intercede. AMS or equivalent ensures Gly is not degraded in the tank by dirt or hard water. Things like crop oil or surfactant either make the plant more vulnerable or helps the gly stick to it better. Not everyone needs every one of these interventions and some need none of them.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[John-W-WI]

The well at my farm is NOT good. TONS of iron in the water.

I always go heavy on the AMS.

-John

 

[Powder]

Is this a case where dish soap would work?

 

[yoderjac]

Is this a case where dish soap would work?

Dawn specifically has a degreasing agent. Some plants have a protective layer which creates surface tension that can be penetrated by a degreaser. In this way it is reducing the surface tension and acting as a surfactant. This does not do anything to deal with hard water, an issue where glyphosate is made less effective in the tank before it is applied.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Rit]

Make sure you get sprayable grade AMS and not water soluable AMS or you will get a first hand experience in finding every filter screen in your set up.