Diversity

[S.T.Fanatic]

I planted a mix this spring with traditional tillage and another one TNM. Both with identical seeds. I think I went to heavy on the sunflowers (at least with the plot that was tilled). I’m not positive o the poundage but it was about 5# on 1/2 acre in the mix. I like the way the plot is starting to look but next year I will be seeding no more than 3# on this 1/2 acre plot.

It’s hard to tell from the picture but in with the sunflowers there is also soybeans, spring peas, milo, kale, and a small amount of clover that volunteered (which is being hammered). I didn’t do any spraying this spring and the plot is out competing the weeds nicely.

I will do a comparison later in the year of these two plots with different planting styles. I will be planting the two plots again next year and with the addition of my new crimper hopefully the TNM plot will be even better.

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[yoderjac]

Plot looks great, but it is really hard to compare traditional tillage with minimum/no-till methods. They have different objectives. The objective of traditional tillage is high-input, high short-term yield. The objective of minimum/no-till methods are to minimize long-term inputs, improve the nutrient cycling of the soil, and achieve long-term sustainable results.

High quality soils can also take much more tillage abuse before showing symptoms than marginal soils. I would lay you odds that in most cases, a traditional tillage plot will provide more forage on an individual year comparison. On some soils the difference may be smaller than others.

What we really should be comparing (which is impossible to do) is the relative impact on deer (or whatever wildlife species you are managing for). Because minimum tillage methods are lower cost and effort, one can provide more acreage of food for the same or lower total cost. So, the question becomes do the deer perform better with a mix of crops and weeds over a larger area than a clean concentrated plot of planted crops. It is even an immediate comparison of the deer, but what happens over time when concentrated food plots are not planted for whatever reason. Do we create more boom/bust or have we increased the BCC of the land through our management techniques.

Farmers are moving to no-till for economic reasons. With large precise equipment and govt incentives for cover crops, they can get equivalent yields for a somewhat lower cost improving profit. Without the large equipment and incentives, deer managers are choosing methods like T&M for very different reasons. Since only a fraction of a deer's diet comes from food plots, the metric for a "good plot" is whether it is sufficient to provide deer enough nutrition during times when nature is stingy. Lower costs and time needed to maintain food plots provides more resources for other habitat improvements.

So, as you compare your plots, keep in mind that the underlying objectives will determine success.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[SD51555]

Plot looks great, but it is really hard to compare traditional tillage with minimum/no-till methods. They have different objectives. The objective of traditional tillage is high-input, high short-term yield. The objective of minimum/no-till methods are to minimize long-term inputs, improve the nutrient cycling of the soil, and achieve long-term sustainable results.

High quality soils can also take much more tillage abuse before showing symptoms than marginal soils. I would lay you odds that in most cases, a traditional tillage plot will provide more forage on an individual year comparison. On some soils the difference may be smaller than others.

What we really should be comparing (which is impossible to do) is the relative impact on deer (or whatever wildlife species you are managing for). Because minimum tillage methods are lower cost and effort, one can provide more acreage of food for the same or lower total cost. So, the question becomes do the deer perform better with a mix of crops and weeds over a larger area than a clean concentrated plot of planted crops. It is even an immediate comparison of the deer, but what happens over time when concentrated food plots are not planted for whatever reason. Do we create more boom/bust or have we increased the BCC of the land through our management techniques.

Farmers are moving to no-till for economic reasons. With large precise equipment and govt incentives for cover crops, they can get equivalent yields for a somewhat lower cost improving profit. Without the large equipment and incentives, deer managers are choosing methods like T&M for very different reasons. Since only a fraction of a deer's diet comes from food plots, the metric for a "good plot" is whether it is sufficient to provide deer enough nutrition during times when nature is stingy. Lower costs and time needed to maintain food plots provides more resources for other habitat improvements.

So, as you compare your plots, keep in mind that the underlying objectives will determine success.

Thanks,

Jack

I don't know about all that.

What I do know is that plot looks damn good. I am a huge fan of a complex blend. It's fun to go through and see how your mix is performing, what is thick, what is thin, etc.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

I don't know about all that.

What I do know is that plot looks damn good. I am a huge fan of a complex blend. It's fun to go through and see how your mix is performing, what is thick, what is thin, etc.

I have no need for huge tonnage. Most years my plots have forage left over when spring green up hits so that's all I need. I only need the plot to produce enough to feed the deer through winter. If I am able to do that will nothing more than the price of seed and minimal time it is a win in my book. I'm not one to just give it a try once and if it fails never do it again. I can only think that this plot would be better had I been able to roll the cereal instead of mowing it. I've got good soil so If i can get the biomass to cover the seed I have no reason to think it won't produce and excellent crop.

Time will tell.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

This plot is full of trails and I have no worries about creating a doe factory.

 

[TreeDaddy]

This plot is full of trails and I have no worries about creating a doe factory.

How is that roller/crimper project coming along?

bill

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

This plot is full of trails and I have no worries about creating a doe factory.

How is that roller/crimper project coming along?

bill

Slow. I don’t have much for spare time. Hoping to have it completed by the end of next week


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[yoderjac]

Love what you are doing!

 

[H20fwler]

Looks great S.T. Fanatic!
I like a good mix too, variety is the spice. For me here I try to put as many options out there as I can and I like the diversified ground cover.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

My plan for next year is to decrease the sunflowers by a fair amount and add sun hemp and cow peas. The one issue I have with this type of plot is that it will be a major pain in the butt to over seed with cereals this fall. one might even use the word impossible.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

I have no need for huge tonnage. Most years my plots have forage left over when spring green up hits so that's all I need. I only need the plot to produce enough to feed the deer through winter. If I am able to do that will nothing more than the price of seed and minimal time it is a win in my book. I'm not one to just give it a try once and if it fails never do it again. I can only think that this plot would be better had I been able to roll the cereal instead of mowing it. I've got good soil so If i can get the biomass to cover the seed I have no reason to think it won't produce and excellent crop.

Time will tell.

I thought I better say that the picture above is from traditional tillage not TNM. The way I worded it in this post was a little misleading.

 

[Boll Weevil]

Looking real good ST.

Still experimenting but thinking a future goto mix will be sunflower, sorghum, cowpeas as shown below. One of my goals was to protect the sunflowers and cowpeas long enough that they could get ahead of the deer and in this case, it worked. Another goal was to provide brooding cover for turkeys/quail and future feed for a whole host of critters so interested to see how this works out.

 

[Tree Spud]

I thought I better say that the picture above is from traditional tillage not TNM. The way I worded it in this post was a little misleading.

ST ... My biggest issue is always weed & grass competition. I have 2 different 3 acre plots with RR soy beans and this is the 3rd year for these. I sprayed gly twice last year and and have already sprayed twice this year, still have weeds & grasses starting.

With the seed selection you have, how do you deal with the weeds & grasses?

 

[yoderjac]

ST ... My biggest issue is always weed & grass competition. I have 2 different 3 acre plots with RR soy beans and this is the 3rd year for these. I sprayed gly twice last year and and have already sprayed twice this year, still have weeds & grasses starting.

With the seed selection you have, how do you deal with the weeds & grasses?

Same with me. I went to RR beans because we had such issues with summer weed competition in our area. That resulted in a new issue, a naturally gly resistant weed, Marestail, became dominate in our plots and eventually competed well with the beans. We have been trying to eliminate that problem in the last few years but spraying 24D amine when it is young and last year we planted a good smother crop of buckwheat. It is one crop that seems to outcompete weeds in the summer here.

This year, I tried mixing sunn hemp in with the buckwheat. I'm ready to assess the results now. While the sunn hemp grew pretty well, my seeding rates (based on recommendations) were way too low for my situation. Summer weeds took over quickly and the field is stunted with the competition.

I plan to try this again next year with much higher seeding rates.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

ST ... My biggest issue is always weed & grass competition. I have 2 different 3 acre plots with RR soy beans and this is the 3rd year for these. I sprayed gly twice last year and and have already sprayed twice this year, still have weeds & grasses starting.

With the seed selection you have, how do you deal with the weeds & grasses?

That's exactly what I do, Deal with it.

Five years ago this was a Brassica plot. The following spring I seeded it heavily (acre rate on half acre plot) with jumbo ladino clover and oasis chicory. I mowed it twice a year for the first two years and early June the third year. After I mowed it that year in June (2018) we went into a prolonged dry spell and it didn't put on much growth. I sprayed it with gly mid July and did a TNM brassica plot. The brassicas grow fast and shade out any weed seed in my soil. This past June I mowed off whatever weeds were in the plot (mainly bolting brassica and stinging nettle) I seeded my mix with the exception of the Kale. I tilled the seed under with the tiller set at 1-2" depth so your guess is as good as mine to how deep the seed was. I then spread the Kale and walked away.

In order to plot like this you need a couple of things. Warm soil and an acceptance for a FEW "weeds"

With a good crop rotation, species diversity, and late planting into "warm" soil your intended planting will out compete most of the weeds. I'm not saying there isn't any weeds in my plot because there is. The only two that bother me though are the thistle and burrdock. They are present but this mix grew fast enough that the only places the weeds are growing it in a few bare spots where I didn't get the seed evenly spread.

With a diverse mix like this I see no reason why I couldnt plant the same thing every single year without worrying about pests, disease, or fertilizer for that matter.

 

[Boll Weevil]

With a diverse mix like this I see no reason why I couldnt plant the same thing every single year without worrying about pests, disease, or fertilizer for that matter.

Exactly my plan as well. Also experimented in another spot with sorghum, sunflower, and soybean (vs. cowpea) so might just alternate between the legumes.

Regarding weed suppression, the intended crop got up so fast and canopied that weeds had no chance. I was surprised at how fast these mixes canopied. Maybe some sort of symbiotic relationship? Pure stands of sorghum planted within a day or 2 of the spot above, same dirt, same moisture and temps didn't canopy as fast.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

Exactly my plan as well. Also experimented in another spot with sorghum, sunflower, and soybean (vs. cowpea) so might just alternate between the legumes.

Regarding weed suppression, the intended crop got up so fast and canopied that weeds had no chance. I was surprised at how fast these mixes canopied. Maybe some sort of symbiotic relationship? Pure stands of sorghum planted within a day or 2 of the spot above, same dirt, same moisture and temps didn't canopy as fast.

Instead of alternating why not have both in the mix?

 

[TreeDaddy]

Looking real good ST.

Still experimenting but thinking a future goto mix will be sunflower, sorghum, cowpeas as shown below. One of my goals was to protect the sunflowers and cowpeas long enough that they could get ahead of the deer and in this case, it worked. Another goal was to provide brooding cover for turkeys/quail and future feed for a whole host of critters so interested to see how this works out.

View attachment 25208

thats gorgeous

looks to be begging for fall TnM mix soon

bill

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

Looking real good ST.

Still experimenting but thinking a future goto mix will be sunflower, sorghum, cowpeas as shown below. One of my goals was to protect the sunflowers and cowpeas long enough that they could get ahead of the deer and in this case, it worked. Another goal was to provide brooding cover for turkeys/quail and future feed for a whole host of critters so interested to see how this works out.

View attachment 25208

thats gorgeous

looks to be begging for fall TnM mix soon

bill

Wouldn’t even consider it.

My intentions are for pea and bean pods, milo that heads out, big sunflower heads, and tall stalks of kale.


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[TreeDaddy]

......sounds even better

post pics with update

bill