Deer/Vehicle numbers 2013 - just some info

[bat man]

Good luck, but you are in a loosing battle.

You can kiss my ass Dipper. I don't fight battles I will lose.

But I appreciate your insight. Sometimes not your input, but I do gain from the insight.

 

[bat man]

Creating mistrust for the DNR is a sad but primary objective of the MN efforts as well. BS it had to come to this but the facts are the facts and you can't hide from them.

 

[wiscwhip]

The question then becomes, when have you practiced trigger restraint to the point it starts to blow up in your face. Some areas in the southern 2/3rds of WI have now practiced it to the point that the DNR has to threaten them with antlerless only, no buck seasons just to get them to harvest a reasonable number of does. What the DNR doesn't care about is that in those same areas are pockets with very low numbers of deer near to guys with places like NoFo and dipper, who are overrun. These low population pockets are what drives the CDAC Committees to recommend Increase or Maintain goals in areas that clearly have too many deer. The reality of it is, a place like Waupaca Co that lists a DPSM in the high 50's to low 60's actually have areas with DPSM in the 90's and 100's and other areas with 10 - 20 DPSM. The DNR knows that they have no way to do anything about getting those deer to disperse into low population areas, so they chose to kill too many over the whole area to deal with the specific areas of overpopulation. They have already proven that DMAP won't take hold here for many years at least, if at all, for all the reasons mentioned prior. The whole antler porn mentality dictates that one must do nothing to chase these deer off their place even though they are overpopulated with does, given the chance that Mr. Big may run off as well. The DNR is really caught between a rock and a hard place in these situations. They make rules like NoFo mentions above(and others) to increase kill in areas with too many deer, hoping that Pops will fill Jr's tag with a doe if the kid doesn't get one, just to increase the total kill numbers to a reasonable amount. Unfortunately, these rules backfire in the DNR's face on a regular basis as well, such as the 10,000 antlerless killed in Buck-Only zones in the north this past year.

 

[dipper]

You can kiss my ass Dipper. I don't fight battles I will lose.

But I appreciate your insight. Sometimes not your input, but I do gain from the insight.

It's not personal, so ease up.
For every one of you guys wanting to grow the herd there is how many more willing to shoot anything they see. If the majority of people wanted to increase the herd, you wouldn't be in the situation you are in. They just wouldnt shoot a doe like they do by me. Your not gonna change the publics mind if they already have it made up. If the majority wanted to increase the herd, you wouldn't have to be working so hard.
Like I said good luck and watch your mouth that's inappropriate language

 

[dipper]

My point exactly Wisc.-you think your gonna change the mind of the guy using his kids antlerless tag. There is so few deer in these areas for a reason, because people want to shoot them.
If you want to devote your life to changing these people's minds, go ahead. But your not going to reason with a bipolar person.

 

[biglakeba$$]

I spoke with Gino DeAngelo on the phone. He is from the Farmland Research group.

He said 95% of deer that die, is due to bullets in our permit area.

The DNR holds ALL the cards to make the difference if they choose to do so.

I do agree with Dipper to an extent.... People are basically nuts and think deer are like birds... Shoot em all, and more will just migrate in. Its an endless supply....
We have no hope for that crowd , and sadly it is a very large crowd.

With that said, those same people wont take any stance of any sort. So if we can get the crowd of people that care, maybe something could be done to change the harvest levels. Its a tough climb for sure. I would love to get our neighbors to acknowledge lower numbers and change, but it is hopeless to get some to do anything.
Our bordering hunters to our west lease the land and the core group leader is in his 41st season hunting/leasing that land to shoot deer. They hunt 2 days a year and goddammit, they will shoot deer.... Simple as that and I have no chance to change that mindset.

 

[dipper]

My opinion on hunters as a group-bipolar. There is a dramatic shift in what they are. Some don't want any shot, some want them all shot. There is no rhyme or reason why they act or what they do. It's simply uncontrollable what they do and what personalty they have at any given moment.
Guys we are all on the same page on this site.
We are the 1%. Most guys think they got it figured out by slapping a bob food plot in or dumping 100 pounds of corn. They don't get what we do, nor do they have the will to care. It isn't a priority in their lives.
Your only going to change them if they want to change. There are ions of different reasons to what drives a will to change.
Blaming everything on the dnr is only part of the problem. What's one of the legs of the 3 legged stool of deer management? People! If the people aren't on the right page of reasonable deer management, the stool falls down.
It's clear the dnrs out there have a drastic population mindset. There is a reason, we may never 100% know. I just can't see how you change the dnrs beliefs. They have their research and have their minds made up.

 

[bat man]

It's not personal, so ease up.

It can be done. In the early 2000's where I hunt guys would often see 30 to 40 deer per night on stand. No plots, no habitat work. Those same guys are now singing the blues as many of them shot 5 plus does per year for years. Enter the cooperative and those same parties have now sworn off killing does for a few years to rebuild the herd. Couple years to build trust and one letter with some info on doe home range etc. Its proven in my area you can affect the trigger in a short period of time.