kabic
5 year old buck +
This is what I believe. If there is activity year round they get used to it. Starting doing something different out of the blue and it would alarm them.
Deer Behavior is Changing
- Thread starter sandbur
- Start date
This is what I believe. If there is activity year round they get used to it. Starting doing something different out of the blue and it would alarm them.
Steve Bartylla
5 year old buck +
Art, I agree that the sense I get are that your numbers are anywhere near high enough yet for what I described to kick into full gear. Your now higher deer numbers are still way lower than the properties I'm talking about when they are at their low point. I did find it interesting that you are already starting to see a little daylight activity as the numbers just start climbing. That may have every bit as much to do with pressure as deer numbers, though.
To answer your next ?, I think a lot of it has to do with how high the deer #s get and how that lines up with the food sources they desire most, as well as individual deer tendencies. I suspect that legit competition for limited resources is a major player in getting deer to hit open food sources during daylight.
Bowsnbucks
5 year old buck +
I agree with what Bur mentioned on post #35. I've seen deer at close quarters and acted like I didn't see them - no eye contact - and kept moving at a slow, steady pace and the deer never twitched. My best example was on a BIG 9 pt. that was coming to our food plots right at dusk. I saw him at about 50 yds. standing stone still looking right at me. I was walking back to camp. My first thought was to keep moving and not look right at him. So I kept moving at the same slow easy pace and just rolled my eyes to the side to watch him as I walked by. I even slowly raised my rifle with each step to see if I could get the cross-hairs on him. ( I had already filled my buck tag - doe only possible ) He did the same thing as me - he s-l-o-w-l-y moved his head to watch me walk by and never moved a muscle. But I did manage to get the crosshairs on his boiler room and when I did, I just slowly lowered the rifle and kept walking. As I entered a thick patch of pines. I glanced back at him and he was still frozen there but was still looking directly at me. I couldn't help but smile because I had just learned a valuable lesson on a mature buck. My closest point to him was about 25 yds. and if I had a tag - I could have him on my wall now !!
As for the 4-wheelers - all I know and have seen at our camp is that ever since the squadron of atv's has been used in rifle season, it's really rare to have a deer killed on our property. Before the atv's, when everyone went out on foot, deer were killed with regularity. Most of the deer killed now are in archery season - no machines. I can see deer not being jittery around farms where tractors, trucks and atv's are moving thru all year long. That's not the case at our camp. Spring planting of food plots - that's it. I agree with Stu on the MATURE BUCK idea too. Family groups and yearling bucks generally tolerate more than a wily veteran will. He'll go to where he's undisturbed.
As for the 4-wheelers - all I know and have seen at our camp is that ever since the squadron of atv's has been used in rifle season, it's really rare to have a deer killed on our property. Before the atv's, when everyone went out on foot, deer were killed with regularity. Most of the deer killed now are in archery season - no machines. I can see deer not being jittery around farms where tractors, trucks and atv's are moving thru all year long. That's not the case at our camp. Spring planting of food plots - that's it. I agree with Stu on the MATURE BUCK idea too. Family groups and yearling bucks generally tolerate more than a wily veteran will. He'll go to where he's undisturbed.
Steve Bartylla
5 year old buck +
As far as the ATV stuff goes, here's what I THINK I know
Every deer has a personality of its own. What bugs one may not bother another, and I'm quite sure this applies to ATV use, as well.
When ATV use is consistent, as in at least several times a week, preferably daily, taking the same routes over and over again, at least the majority of deer don't care. They become trained to pay almost no attention at all. I could bore you with a bunch of stories about an outfitter that drove every client directly to the tree (but also drove all over his place nearly every day of off season) and a different piece of ground I managed that had an active oil lease on it with the maintenance guys driving all over the place 6 days a week, year round. In both cases, the overwhelming majority of deer wouldn't leave a food plot with an ATV driving 20 yards away. Some of them wouldn't even raise their heads.
On the flip side, that same piece that had the active oil lease, the guys running it got their hands slapped by the DNR (or whoever it is that enforces the oil regs) so hard that they couldn't justify all the clean up work they'd have to do to get things back up to code and stopped their oil operation cold. Within months of that happening, a good % of the deer would run from ATVs, as it was no longer a daily part of their lives.
I don't believe ATVs are as bad as many believe, but I sure don't think they're harmless in MOST situations either, unless it's very consistent use.
That said, I also try to remember that this stuff is also supposed to be fun. Let's face reality here. Many of us that head out into the deer woods are in horrifically bad shape. If you make them walk up that ridge, 25% are going to have a heart attack before getting 10% up and the rest will be a sweaty, gasping mess that are praying for death by the 50% mark. That's NOT going to be "fun" for them. I try to take that into consideration for those clients and the hunters I have on the grounds I manage that are in less than marginal shape.
Every deer has a personality of its own. What bugs one may not bother another, and I'm quite sure this applies to ATV use, as well.
When ATV use is consistent, as in at least several times a week, preferably daily, taking the same routes over and over again, at least the majority of deer don't care. They become trained to pay almost no attention at all. I could bore you with a bunch of stories about an outfitter that drove every client directly to the tree (but also drove all over his place nearly every day of off season) and a different piece of ground I managed that had an active oil lease on it with the maintenance guys driving all over the place 6 days a week, year round. In both cases, the overwhelming majority of deer wouldn't leave a food plot with an ATV driving 20 yards away. Some of them wouldn't even raise their heads.
On the flip side, that same piece that had the active oil lease, the guys running it got their hands slapped by the DNR (or whoever it is that enforces the oil regs) so hard that they couldn't justify all the clean up work they'd have to do to get things back up to code and stopped their oil operation cold. Within months of that happening, a good % of the deer would run from ATVs, as it was no longer a daily part of their lives.
I don't believe ATVs are as bad as many believe, but I sure don't think they're harmless in MOST situations either, unless it's very consistent use.
That said, I also try to remember that this stuff is also supposed to be fun. Let's face reality here. Many of us that head out into the deer woods are in horrifically bad shape. If you make them walk up that ridge, 25% are going to have a heart attack before getting 10% up and the rest will be a sweaty, gasping mess that are praying for death by the 50% mark. That's NOT going to be "fun" for them. I try to take that into consideration for those clients and the hunters I have on the grounds I manage that are in less than marginal shape.
phil@thesidehill
5 year old buck +
I have had similar experience as to BnB just related....anytime i'm out in the woods and I "bump" into a deer, i just keep the same pace, dont make direct eye contact or turn my head to them, and more often than not they just stand stone still and wait for me to pass before moving. I also truly believe that deer and really most prey animals understand and recognize predatory behavior. When a deer busts you sneaking, moving slowly, crouched, looking at them...they realize that is predatory and they high tail it. More often than not an upright, even gait with a consistent pace and lack of eye contact or lack of acknowledgment gets you a "free" pass.
i have been thinking alot about the deer that use my property and their "awareness" of my scent. I spend a decent amount of time on the property shed hunting, doing habitat work, and food plots in the late winter, spring, and all summer. I use ZERO scent control precautions, pay no mind to wind direction, time of day etc....and i still get pics of deer right after or before i get there and see deer watching me doing work. Once late august rolls around I start to take scent precautions and pay attention to wind direction and time of day when i go to the property to do work or check cams. Then during the hunting season I get much more serious about all of those things and i drastically reduce my "presence".
I have been thinking lately that with all the time i spend up there outside of hunting season and how much scent i leave around that the local deer have possibly acclimated to it....as being non threatening. My primary stand has pretty solid ingress and egress and the combo of the prevailing winds and the thermals make it so that its nearly impossible for deer to wind me once i'm in the tree. I spray my boots down with extreme prejudice in addition to all the other scent control precautions and 9 times out of ten deer that do cross my entry never even break stride. When they do take notice its normally a quick sniff, followed by a look around and then right back to what they were doing. I'm not talking about mature bucks in particular, all of this relates to the does, fawns, young bucks....the deer that i see most often.
i have been thinking alot about the deer that use my property and their "awareness" of my scent. I spend a decent amount of time on the property shed hunting, doing habitat work, and food plots in the late winter, spring, and all summer. I use ZERO scent control precautions, pay no mind to wind direction, time of day etc....and i still get pics of deer right after or before i get there and see deer watching me doing work. Once late august rolls around I start to take scent precautions and pay attention to wind direction and time of day when i go to the property to do work or check cams. Then during the hunting season I get much more serious about all of those things and i drastically reduce my "presence".
I have been thinking lately that with all the time i spend up there outside of hunting season and how much scent i leave around that the local deer have possibly acclimated to it....as being non threatening. My primary stand has pretty solid ingress and egress and the combo of the prevailing winds and the thermals make it so that its nearly impossible for deer to wind me once i'm in the tree. I spray my boots down with extreme prejudice in addition to all the other scent control precautions and 9 times out of ten deer that do cross my entry never even break stride. When they do take notice its normally a quick sniff, followed by a look around and then right back to what they were doing. I'm not talking about mature bucks in particular, all of this relates to the does, fawns, young bucks....the deer that i see most often.
Bowsnbucks
5 year old buck +
Points well taken Steve B. The property for most of the year has no atv traffic. We plant, log, etc. every year generally in March, April, & May. From the 3rd week in October each year, the atv's are like bees buzzing all over. Daylight deer sightings go down to nil. The thing that wears us out is hearing all the griping every year about seeing no deer - " why are we planting food plots & apple trees ?? There's no deer here. " Early archery season and on WEEKDAYS during the rest of archery season ( when nobody's around ) we see plenty of deer. Weekends - forget it. We don't want anyone to fall over with a heart attack, and I'm all for making it fun. But the b@#$*ing gets old. Habits won't change at camp either. Ironically, most of the other camps near ours have given up driving atv's out to stands. ( they weren't seeing deer anymore ). They're only used to pick up downed deer now at those camps. I talk to them.
We have operating coal mines near our camp that have drag lines, loaders, dozers, and blasting going on all year. No effect on deer & turkeys. But like you & others have said - it's all year long - they get used to it. But if most of the year was quiet and then at the end of October each year, the blasting and machinery noise started up - I have to think the deer would get spooky. And at a time that the rut is coming on. Bad time of year for a disruption, I would think, at least if you want to see them in daylight hours.
We have operating coal mines near our camp that have drag lines, loaders, dozers, and blasting going on all year. No effect on deer & turkeys. But like you & others have said - it's all year long - they get used to it. But if most of the year was quiet and then at the end of October each year, the blasting and machinery noise started up - I have to think the deer would get spooky. And at a time that the rut is coming on. Bad time of year for a disruption, I would think, at least if you want to see them in daylight hours.
bueller
Moderator
I will say this about ATV's and deer on my property. If I'm on well traveled path AND driving at a steady pace, not too slow or too fast, the deer will just watch me as I drive by. Most times if I stop to look (usually only when riding with a kid) they bolt. Flying around open throttle or creeping at idle usually spooks them also. Come to think of it, much of what I just said seems to apply to vehicles on the road also.
sandbur
5 year old buck +
For five or six years previously, if a deer, buck or doe saw a vehicle they would bolt for the woods. Area 221.
I could drive 50 to 70 miles in different areas and have deer just stand and watch the car go by. These were Lottery areas with very few doe permits.
Insects might be forcing deer to the fields this year, also.
sandbur
5 year old buck +
Were those 2 bucks yearlings?
