Chicory and annual clover

[westonwhitetail]

I’d like to establish a plot of pure chicory. Any pros and cons to having a pure stand of chicory?

When I plant, was thinking in august, I was going to try mixing it with annual clovers, berseem and crimson. I have another plot very close that will be in oats and rye, so I wanted to try and plant something different with the chicory. Anyone use annual clovers for a fall cover crop to help establishment?

Any advice is much appreciated, thanks.



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[Mortenson]

I'll be watching. Have a 5lb bag of chicory and not really sure what to do with it. Was thinking of making its own little plot.

 

[Native Hunter]

A pure stand of chicory just means that you will be the one feeding it the nitrogen it craves (costing you $$$). Clover mixed with chicory provides that nitrogen. I've tried it both ways, and a clover/chicory mix is the best. Chicory demands a lot of nitrogen.

Annual clovers would be okay, but a good Medium Red or even a good white clover would be a better choice. They will last and keep providing the nitrogen that the chicory needs.

The pic below was taken recently and shows a chicory/clover strip I planted last September. It hasn't been touched with a mower or had any kind of maintenance. The deer are hammering it right now, and as you can see, the chicory is very green and health without any fertilizer.

PS: I planted that with wheat. A few weeks ago when I took a picture of this, you could see the wheat heads maturing. Notice now that they are all gone - eaten up in the last few days.

 

[Mortenson]

Thanks NH. Looks great, and good info. I have a 1.5 ac white clover plot that is basically down to an acre due to fruit trees being planted. On that remaining acre do you think I could just go in this August and spread my 5 lb of chicory over the top and have any chance of some of it taking? Or would it be wasted, snuffed out from the beginning?

 

[Native Hunter]

Thanks NH. Looks great, and good info. I have a 1.5 ac white clover plot that is basically down to an acre due to fruit trees being planted. On that remaining acre do you think I could just go in this August and spread my 5 lb of chicory over the top and have any chance of some of it taking? Or would it be wasted, snuffed out from the beginning?

That is way too much chicory for 1 acre. Just to give you an idea, below is roughly what I planted per acre in the plot shown above:

3 pounds chicory
10 pounds medium red clover
50 pounds of oats and wheat mixed
Sometimes I add a few brassicas but have learned not to go over 1 pound

You need some seed to soil contact for your plan to work. Depending on the circumstances, you might be able to pull it off with throw and mow.

 

[westonwhitetail]

Thanks Native Hunter, I didn’t think of the Nitrogen aspect. I will mix in some perennial clovers. I wonder what the heaviest you could be on the chicory to still get good results?


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[Native Hunter]

Thanks Native Hunter, I didn’t think of the Nitrogen aspect. I will mix in some perennial clovers. I wonder what the heaviest you could be on the chicory to still get good results?


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Three pounds in the mix I show above does well for me, but you could experiment with more.

 

[MickT]

Adding clover doesn’t cost you any herbicide options either.


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[yoderjac]

Just to provide another viewpoint, I used to mix perennial common ladino clover with chicory and it worked well as native hunter said. Not only does the clover provide N for the chicory, when the ladino goes dormant in the summer, the deep rooted chicory thrives. They were a good match. They were well balanced from a persistence viewpoint. I later switched from common ladino clover to Durana clover because it is more drought tolerant and persistent. I found it was not worth mixing chicory with it in my location. First, since the Durana goes dormant for a very short period during our dry summers and not at all if we have a wetter than average summer, the value of the chicory in the summer was less. Second, although Durana is slow to establish, once established it out-competed the chicory quickly so it only lasted a couple years and then it was a pure Durana field.

I'm now considering using chicory again but as a monoculture. I too plan to start it with an annual clover in the fall like Crimson or perhaps a short lived perennial like medium red. Crimson is an annual clover but acts as a reseeding annual in my location but I only get a few years from reseeding. So, my thought is that I'll get some N from the annual clover but the chicory should be able to compete well with these. In the end as the clover naturally dies out, I should have a pure stand of chicory for a few years.

I just wanted to point out that the characteristics of the clover in your area along with the mix ratio can have a significant effect on the chicory.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[H20fwler]

I've only been planting chicory for a few years now. I planted it heavy along with red/crimson and ladino mixed in thick, the ladino seems to have worked best with it. I don't mow mine and the chicory ends up out competing most of the clover here. I'm going to overseed some durana into the plots this fall and see if it can hold it's own better than the others with no maintenance provided. Most of my chicory/clover plots are in heavier clay soil and get browsed late spring a little in summer and then hard in mid to late fall with the chicory getting eaten to the dirt in a very short time.

 

[westonwhitetail]

A pure stand of chicory just means that you will be the one feeding it the nitrogen it craves (costing you $$$). Clover mixed with chicory provides that nitrogen. I've tried it both ways, and a clover/chicory mix is the best. Chicory demands a lot of nitrogen.

Annual clovers would be okay, but a good Medium Red or even a good white clover would be a better choice. They will last and keep providing the nitrogen that the chicory needs.

The pic below was taken recently and shows a chicory/clover strip I planted last September. It hasn't been touched with a mower or had any kind of maintenance. The deer are hammering it right now, and as you can see, the chicory is very green and health without any fertilizer.

PS: I planted that with wheat. A few weeks ago when I took a picture of this, you could see the wheat heads maturing. Notice now that they are all gone - eaten up in the last few days.

Native, just wondering do you use wheat instead of rye because the deer browse it?


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[westonwhitetail]

Thanks for the info everyone. My plan right now is to try somewhere in the range of 3-4 lbs per acre chicory and 3-4 lbs ladino. We’ll see how they compete, id like the chicory to be the main attraction in the long run with clover filling in and providing some N. Also going to seed with berseem annual clover this fall for the short term.

Any input on that idea?


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[j-bird]

I tried a heavy chicory plot and had issues with my prep (weeds took over) so I had to try again and I am trying to avoid the area due to a turkey on the nest. I went real light on the clover. All I know and the reason for my trial is that come late october/early november something happens in the chicory here and the deer just hammer it. I have it in other plots and you can see it without any issue and then all of the sudden it's like somebody flipped a switch and the deer came thru over night and eat every piece they could find. I plan on using that to my advantage. As soon as the turkey moves off her nest I will see how my attempt is doing on the 2nd try. Wheat can be used further south as it still survives the winter but doesn't get near as tall in the spring. I am a little further north than Native and I prefer to use wheat over rye as well. A habitat consultant (Jim Ward) uses heavy chicory plots as well.

 

[Native Hunter]

Native, just wondering do you use wheat instead of rye because the deer browse it?

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The wheat heads are eaten after they mature and are low enough that they are easily reached. Also, I've experimented and my deer seem to eat wheat better than rye in the fall after it germinates. They also like oats, and I always mix in some oats.

 

[westonwhitetail]

I tried a heavy chicory plot and had issues with my prep (weeds took over) so I had to try again and I am trying to avoid the area due to a turkey on the nest. I went real light on the clover. All I know and the reason for my trial is that come late october/early november something happens in the chicory here and the deer just hammer it. I have it in other plots and you can see it without any issue and then all of the sudden it's like somebody flipped a switch and the deer came thru over night and eat every piece they could find. I plan on using that to my advantage. As soon as the turkey moves off her nest I will see how my attempt is doing on the 2nd try. Wheat can be used further south as it still survives the winter but doesn't get near as tall in the spring. I am a little further north than Native and I prefer to use wheat over rye as well. A habitat consultant (Jim Ward) uses heavy chicory plots as well.

How did you plant J-bird? The two options I have are throw and mow or spray and lightly disc. I don't think chicory would do great throw and mow style, because how light the seed is and I think it may get caught up in the mulch and not make good soil contact that way. What would you recomend trying?

 

[westonwhitetail]

The wheat heads are eaten after they mature and are low enough that they are easily reached. Also, I've experimented and my deer seem to eat wheat better than rye in the fall after it germinates. They also like oats, and I always mix in some oats.

I planted rye oats and wheat last year, and for a couple weeks it seemed like the deer would walk straight to the wheat first too. Didn't get to observe the heads being eating though, I till the plot early spring and wasn't sure if it made it through the winter or not.

 

[Catscratch]

Native, just wondering do you use wheat instead of rye because the deer browse it?


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I do. Deer at my place prefer green wheat over green rye every time, and also eat the wheat heads but not the rye heads.

 

[j-bird]

How did you plant J-bird? The two options I have are throw and mow or spray and lightly disc. I don't think chicory would do great throw and mow style, because how light the seed is and I think it may get caught up in the mulch and not make good soil contact that way. What would you recomend trying?

both cases I did not work the soil. My plot is in a wooded opening so there are many stumps and roots to contend with that makes working the soil a poor option. The first time the weeds overtook the seed so I then sprayed and seeded again. I would agree that if possible working the soil would produce a better result if possible. I f will see how this latest trial goes and see where to go from there. I may have to look into a small garden tiller or the like to just work the surface a bit for better results.

 

[yoderjac]

I'm a winter rye fan. My deer don't seem to have real preferences for particular cereal other than they peak at different times. My soils and weed issues prefer Winter Rye. It used to be less expensive as well until they started subsidizing farmers in my area to use it as part of a cover crop. I find WR surface broadcasts better than WW or Oats and it produces better than other cereal when soil fertility and pH are less than optimal.