Chestnuts

[RGrizzzz]

University of Missouri HARC sells Chinese nuts, but their order form goes out early. It may have closed. Edit: looks like HARC just closed. Maybe call them.

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Buzz is a good source of nuts.

I've been growing open pollinated "Tree of the North" seedlings, which he recommends and says are very vigorous. It's a tree bred by Robert Stehli. I bought seedlings from Yellow bud farm late last spring.

Chestnut Families — Yellowbud Farm

www.yellowbud.farm

 

[Hoytvectrix]

University of Missouri HARC sells Chinese nuts, but their order form goes out early. It may have closed. Edit: looks like HARC just closed. Maybe call them.

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Buzz is a good source of nuts.

I've been growing open pollinated "Tree of the North" seedlings, which he recommends and says are very vigorous. It's a tree bred by Robert Stehli. I bought seedlings from Yellow bud farm late last spring.

Chestnut Families — Yellowbud Farm

www.yellowbud.farm

It still took the order, so I'm assuming they either haven't closed their system down yet accidentally, or they are still taking some orders.

I'm assuming that all of these chestnuts were actually from last year. It seems unlikely that they would have been able to harvest all of these chestnuts and process them by September 1 in MO.

 

[RGrizzzz]

It still took the order, so I'm assuming they either haven't closed their system down yet accidentally, or they are still taking some orders.

I'm assuming that all of these chestnuts were actually from last year. It seems unlikely that they would have been able to harvest all of these chestnuts and process them by September 1 in MO.

They will be nuts from this year. I ordered from them 2-3 years ago. That had less choices this year.

 

[RGrizzzz]

Buzz just posted a lot of chestnut seed.

perfect circle farm

ALL SEED HAS BEEN IN STRATIFICATION SINCE IT WAS COLLECTED, WE WILL SHIP AS THE WEATHER ALLOWS SHIPPING INCLUDED WITH PURCHASE- WE ARE HAPPY TO SHIP YOUR SEED IN MULTIPLE PACKAGES! with cold weather here we will ship as weather allows, It is my plan to create a list of the seed and descriptions o

www.perfectcircle.farm

 

[Hoytvectrix]

Wowsers, those are expensive. I'm still going to order some lol.

Chestnut Ridge of Pike County are going on sale tomorrow (unofficially all Dunstan): https://chestnutridgeofpikecounty.com/shop/

I am also a fan of Burnt Ridge: https://www.burntridgenursery.com/products.asp?dept=93

If someone wants to do a seed exchange feel free to PM me. I have ordered way too many this year for what I will be able to plant next year.

 

[RGrizzzz]

Wowsers, those are expensive. I'm still going to order some lol.

Chestnut Ridge of Pike County are going on sale tomorrow (unofficially all Dunstan): https://chestnutridgeofpikecounty.com/shop/

I am also a fan of Burnt Ridge: https://www.burntridgenursery.com/products.asp?dept=93

If someone wants to do a seed exchange feel free to PM me. I have ordered way too many this year for what I will be able to plant next year.

They aren't cheap, but they're the best of the best. These are generally eating chestnuts not wildlife, but there are some good wildlife selections too.

 

[OakSeeds]

If I was going to order chestnuts from Pike County, I would skip the "habitat mix" ($15 / lb) and order instead, the EXTRA LARGE chestnuts for $7 / lb. They are NOT heat treated and sold as viable chestnuts. Two benefits from extra large nuts; 1. more food for the developing tree after germination and, 2. potential genetic influence resulting in large chestnuts on your habitat trees (heavier nut load = more attractant for deer). Good luck my friends

 

[RGrizzzz]

If I was going to order chestnuts from Pike County, I would skip the "habitat mix" ($15 / lb) and order instead, the EXTRA LARGE chestnuts for $7 / lb. They are NOT heat treated and sold as viable chestnuts. Two benefits from extra large nuts; 1. more food for the developing tree after germination and, 2. potential genetic influence resulting in large chestnuts on your habitat trees (heavier nut load = more attractant for deer). Good luck my friends

Be careful with seeds that are not heat treated. They may bring weevils. Proper heat treating doesn't affect viability.

 

[OakSeeds]

Be careful with seeds that are not heat treated. They may bring weevils. Proper heat treating doesn't affect viability.

You are correct; however, I know an individual who has purchased over 600 chestnuts (right off the trees) from these folks and experienced no weevils. It's not likely a commercial grower is going to allow a weevil infestation to last very long in his/her orchard. I wouldn't be afraid of his chestnuts. A good read on chestnut weevils ...
https://www.canr.msu.edu/news/chestnut_weevil_a_potential_pest_of_michigan_chestnuts

 

[Hoytvectrix]

Maybe this is not the case with "Dunstans" from Chestnut Ridge, but as I have been growing out several cultivars of European, Chinese, and Japanese hybrids, I have noticed the larger nuts often produce two sprouts for a single nut. It is easy enough to snip off one of two sprouts if you are watching them, but if you wait too long to get it, you will eventually get some mal-formed roots. I started just throwing several of these away this past growing season because eventually you would get an "S" shape root for those that grew even briefly next to another sprout.

I also tried tracking nut size with seedling vigor, but I didn't see much of a benefit and stopped measuring. This was strictly with container grown seedlings, which might have affected my observations.

 

[OakSeeds]

Here is one of the relatively small number of studies that have investigated the seed size issue; however, it was conducted in Croatia.
https://www.mdpi.com/1999-4907/12/7/858

For those who do not wish to wander through the entire article ....

The Effect of Seed Size on Germination and Seedling Growth in Sweet Chestnut (Castanea sativa Mill.)
Institute of Forest Genetics, Dendrology and Botany, Faculty of Forestry and Wood Technology, University of Zagreb, HR-10000 Zagreb, Croatia

Abstract​

"The quantity and quality of seedlings in the nursery has an impact on the success of re-establishment and later growth. High germination rates enable a sufficient number of seedlings, and their quality is assessed using a number of parameters, including seedling height and root collar diameter. These parameters are influenced in some species by seed size, but the correlation between them is species-specific. The model species in this research was sweet chestnut (Castanea sativa Mill.), and seeds from 12 populations from two distinct biogeographical regions of Croatia were collected. We examined the influence of seed size on four parameters: germination rate, seedling height, root collar diameter and sturdiness quotient. Seed size has been shown to have a positive influence on both seedling height and root collar diameter, whereas no such correlation was noted for germination rate and sturdiness quotient. Significant differences in nut size and seedling growth parameters were found between the Mediterranean and continental populations, with higher values observed in the coastal Mediterranean populations. We concluded that seed origin and seed size have a significant impact on seedling growth and are important factors to consider when choosing seed material. Further nursery operations should consider seed origin and local environmental conditions when choosing seedlings for reforestation efforts and general forest operations."



4. Conclusions and Practical Implications
"Differences in seed and seedling size can be attributed to intraspecific variability and the development of ecotypes. The Mediterranean populations in this research have been shown to have larger seeds, and their seedlings were characterized by more vigorous growth. These populations are genetically and environmentally specific and thus exhibit specific growth parameters. In addition, dry environmental conditions in their natural habitat could also influence the selection of larger seeds, as this provides increased drought tolerance."

"Seed size positively correlated with both seedling height and root collar diameter. In contrast, we found no evidence of the decisive influence of seed mass on germination rate and sturdiness quotient. Larger seeds give young seedlings a head start in early development by providing them with enough nutrients to spur growth. This aids early competition in the natural setting and increases the likelihood of this trait further surviving in the population. In contrast, the ideal conditions of stratification and later nursery treatments provided equal germination conditions for all seeds, regardless of their size. This could explain the lack of influence of seed mass on germination. By providing optimum and uniform germination conditions, nurseries can maximize the production of seedlings."

"Since chestnut seed and seedling quality is affected by seed origin and environment, choosing a proper seed source is an important factor in seedling production. Seed origin must be observed when selecting out-planting materials, especially when the conditions are unfavorable, e.g., drought stress. Properly selected seeds and seedlings ensure the success of reforestation and provide the best chance for the establishment of young plants. Choosing the right seed source for rootstock production is also of paramount importance in nursery operations, as it increases the viability of the grafted plant and provides a genetically more diverse rootstock, which is more likely to cope with the changing environment and possible new pests."

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[Lucky_P]

If planting for wildlife, Dunstans are OK. If you have any interest in eating some yourself, there are much, much better options. The three or four Chinese varieties that Dunstan used in his crossbreeding program are no longer grown by anyone or used in any current breeding programs. One of them - Nanking, I think - is noted for 'carrot' flavor, which is largely regarded as undesirable... though I doubt that deer care....
I've got a half-dozen Dunstan seedlings, grown from nuts a friend sent 25 yrs ago. Nothing about them suggests any American genetics; the deer don't care, they eat them as soon as they hit the ground. I have others, like 'Quing', for human consumption, close enough to the house that I can beat the critters to the nuts.

 

[RGrizzzz]

If planting for wildlife, Dunstans are OK. If you have any interest in eating some yourself, there are much, much better options. The three or four Chinese varieties that Dunstan used in his crossbreeding program are no longer grown by anyone or used in any current breeding programs. One of them - Nanking, I think - is noted for 'carrot' flavor, which is largely regarded as undesirable... though I doubt that deer care....
I've got a half-dozen Dunstan seedlings, grown from nuts a friend sent 25 yrs ago. Nothing about them suggests any American genetics; the deer don't care, they eat them as soon as they hit the ground. I have others, like 'Quing', for human consumption, close enough to the house that I can beat the critters to the nuts.

This! The value of American genetics would be the ability for the trees to complete in a forest due to their size and upright growth. I'm betting most folks planting for wildlife have their trees in an "orchard" type low competition scenario.

 

[Hoytvectrix]

Also, Chinese Japanese and European trees tend to produce more tonnage than the American. It just makes sense from a human or deer consumption perspective.

Don't get me wrong, I would be trying to get a blight resistant American as soon as I could if was a thing.

This winter and spring I'm going to be planting eight more cultivars of hybrid chestnuts on our farms in Missouri to see what grows best.

 

[Lucky_P]

Here's a recent missive from James Nave on American Chestnuts:

Thoughts about growing Castanea dentata, the American Chestnut tree, for those who are relatively new to the problem.

There are so many issues associated with growing American chestnut trees, Castanea dentata, that it's hard to know where to start.

The biggest problem is that dentata trees will be severely damaged or will die from chestnut blight if grown within the native range of dentata, and often far outside that range in the eastern US. No dentata trees are available that are adequately resistant to chestnut blight.

The second biggest problem is that more than 90% of the people who have become interested in growing American chestnuts in the last 20 years know nothing about them. Before you decide to go on a crusade to grow them, you should first learn something about them. First, learn why they died, and then learn why that problem has not been solved in the last 110 years. Deciding that you want to grow American chestnut trees without knowing anything about them, is like deciding to marry someone you read about in the news, but you have never met them and mostly know nothing about them. If you don't know why dentata died out, you are not qualified to be growing dentata trees.

If you want to restore dentata trees, your best option is to support The American Chestnut Foundation. If you are OK with the GM approach to solving the problem, then your best option is to also support the New York Chapter of TACF and the work of SUNY. If you don't know what those two organizations are doing, and what is right or wrong with their efforts, then find out. They are far from perfect, but you are not going to solve the problem yourself by planting dentata trees or dentata hybrid trees. You can certainly try growing them for education and personal satisfaction, but you will not be solving the blight problem.

If you think you have discovered a new way to treat chestnut blight, here's a real eye opener - you have not. American chestnuts started their decline 114 years ago and anything you might think of now was thought of and has been tried multiple times over the last 100 years. No one was waiting for you to come along to do something. Whatever you're thinking of, it's been done, and it has failed.

And if you think you're going to grow a dentata seedling that's blight resistant, or you think you have found a dentata tree already growing somewhere that is blight resistant, no, you have not. And if you think your random dentata seedling will be crucial to the survival of American chestnuts, no, it will not. Individual dentata trees you may find somewhere are not special. There are over 100,000,000 American chestnut tree sprouts still alive in the eastern US. TACF does not try to grow or preseve most of them, so why should they be concerned about your tree? Seriously, why is your tree more special than those 100,000,000 trees? Answer - it isn't.

If you think you have identified a pure American chestnut, think again. The eastern US has an untold number of Chinese chestnut trees, and hybrid chestnut trees that contain European genetics, Chinese genetics, chinquapin genetics and Japanese genetics. Very few chestnut growers in the US can tell the difference between pure dentata trees and pure sativa trees, or between many types of hybrids and pure dentata trees. Also, if you think that TACF has identified a pure American chestnut for you, think again. There is only one way to ID a pure dentata tree and that's by DNA testing. And always keep in mind that TACF does not care if a tree is pure dentata or not. Their goal is to find a timber type chestnut tree that looks like dentata, more or less, and that resists chestnut blight. If a chestnut tree is 90% Chinese, but grows like dentata and looks like dentata, that meets their goals. In theory, the SUNY researchers are trying to work with 100% dentata trees in their GM program, but the only way to ensue purity is to work with stock verified by DNA testing. Generally speaking they are not doing DNA testing on the trees they use.

And if you fantasize that a blight resistant dentata tree would take over the eastern forestry industry, think again. Dentata was a useful timber tree 200 years ago because it was widely available, was cheap and the wood was very rot resistant. It is never going to be cheap again and is never going to be widely available again, certainly not for the next 100 years. Some people also think that the nuts from dentata will take over markets for chestnuts, but that is never going to happen. There are far better chestnuts available from other Castanea species and hybrids of Castanea, than dentata could ever produce. Chestnut blight was brought into the US when other Castanea species were imported to try to improve the quality of American chestnuts. The chestnut blight is testimony to the perceived inadequacy of pure dentata nuts.

To be clear, I continue to support the efforts of both TACF, and their New York chapter's attempts to provide a GM solution to the blight problem, but there are significant issues that remain to be addressed by both groups.

The tree below is a dentata/sativa hybrid growing in Washington state, that is probably at least 100 years old. If it's important to you to grow trees like this, move to the Pacific Northwest, because you're not going to be growing them like this in the east anytime soon.



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