Chestnut crab, liberty, enterprise, winecrisp?

[AtomApple]

Deer Crabapple Trees

Drop Time: Starts in August and September

www.midwestdeertrees.com

another local guy, he has some drop times listed.

 

[cavey]

You cant beat the Chestnut Crab, I have freedom, enterprise and liberty growing up here in NW Wi but they are too young to comment on my winecrisps are young too and should be coming into fruit this year. But the Chestnut is bullet proof and a good eater too.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I have a couple wild crab seedlings (Dolgo I'm assuming) from Blue Hill that I'm debating on letting them stay as Dolgo or attempting to graft. Any thoughts to not doing that? Definitely a benefit grafting to something known. I have two of them in one specific location. My goal is to have one start dropping in September and then one in Oct/Nov.

I think Sandbur has grown some Dolgo seedlings out until they fruited. If I recall, Buckman crab (which BH sells) is a Dolgo seedling that happened to produce larger fruit than a standard Dolgo normally does. Seedlings ALL vary - they don't always hold true to parent trees. Your planted Dolgo seedlings may turn out to be a new gold nugget with larger fruit, or a different crab apple if it's open-pollinated from other sources.

Maybe Sandbur will see this thread and comment on what he's found with Dolgo seedlings.

As for Chestnut crab, Liberty, Enterprise, and Winecrisp - we have all of those at camp (zone 6 & 5 border) - and they're all growing well for us.

 

[AtomApple]

I saw Sandbur on another site say, he got a new phone and can’t find his password for this site.
I think a lot of his seedlings were from “grandma’s tree”, whether that was a dolgo seedling or not I don’t know.

 

[BuckSnort]

I have a couple wild crab seedlings (Dolgo I'm assuming) from Blue Hill that I'm debating on letting them stay as Dolgo or attempting to graft. Any thoughts to not doing that? Definitely a benefit grafting to something known. I have two of them in one specific location. My goal is to have one start dropping in September and then one in Oct/Nov.

I bought some cheap Dolgo seedlings after reading through some of Sandbur’s info. Turned out they were very small fruits. While they have a place, it wasn’t what I was looking for so I grafted them over to Kerr and some other late hanging varieties. It was worth the experiment to me and the Dolgo will make good rootstock.

 

[MN guy]

This turned into a great thread! Thanks for all the info. everyone!
What do you guys recommend for fertilizing to get these young trees going as fast as possible?

 

[Bowsnbucks]

What do you guys recommend for fertilizing to get these young trees going as fast as possible?

I've never done anything too exact & "techy", but from what I've researched over the years, universities recommend waiting until the year after planting to fertilize. (Opinions vary on that). I've just sprinkled a light handful of 10-10-10 around the drip line of second-year & third-year apple & crab trees. They get a balanced ratio of fertilizer, and it's not too strong so the trees get "burned" by it.

A Penn State professor in their fruit tree dept. told me via e-mail that good new growth on an apple tree is anywhere between 8" and 12" on the limb tips. That's the amount of growth to aim for. Less than that means it needs some fertilizer, more than that means too much vegetative growth. Too thick of a canopy and it can lead to disease problems. FWIW.

You guys up in the tundra may need different advice because of your sandy soil & harsh winters. Maybe check with U. Minnesota folks in the fruit tree dept. there.

 

[bigboreblr]

winesap is a triploid. It means you need 2 different types of pollen to get a fruit to bear. With a small group of trees, you may not be getting good fruit bearing. Likely need a group of 10 trees nearby and atleast 3 or 4 in the same pollinization gorup. I believe triploid pollen isn't a good polinator of other trees either.

I have places in both zone 5 borderline 6 and zone 3. Kerr is a good bet over there. All winter hangover is another good late season wildlife one. sweet 16, nova ezgro, and trailman are good zone 3 options. These are not ideal late season droppers though.

I have freedom and it's showing some cedar apple rust, but nothing bad.

Another option in zone 3 is whitetail crabs. He is offering droptine and 30-06 on anty rootstock. I planted them this year up in zone 3 adirondacks, near chummer and saint lawrence nurseries territory. Saint lawrence nursery and fedco are 2 places that have extensive zone 3 varieties. Besides variety, you need to keep an eye out on rootstock too. B118, antonovka, or dolgo would be good choices. Borderline zone 2, i'd probably leave B118 alone.

 

[AtomApple]

winesap is a triploid. It means you need 2 different types of pollen to get a fruit to bear. With a small group of trees, you may not be getting good fruit bearing. Likely need a group of 10 trees nearby and atleast 3 or 4 in the same pollinization gorup. I believe triploid pollen isn't a good polinator of other trees either.

I have places in both zone 5 borderline 6 and zone 3. Kerr is a good bet over there. All winter hangover is another good late season wildlife one. sweet 16, nova ezgro, and trailman are good zone 3 options. These are not ideal late season droppers though.

I have freedom and it's showing some cedar apple rust, but nothing bad.

Another option in zone 3 is whitetail crabs. He is offering droptine and 30-06 on anty rootstock. I planted them this year up in zone 3 adirondacks, near chummer and saint lawrence nurseries territory. Saint lawrence nursery and fedco are 2 places that have extensive zone 3 varieties. Besides variety, you need to keep an eye out on rootstock too. B118, antonovka, or dolgo would be good choices. Borderline zone 2, i'd probably leave B118 alone.

I thought the whitetail crabs were more of a zone 4 tree. Has anyone had luck growing them for multiple seasons in zone 3?

 

[MN guy]

I thought the whitetail crabs were more of a zone 4 tree. Has anyone had luck growing them for multiple seasons in zone 3?

winesap is a triploid. It means you need 2 different types of pollen to get a fruit to bear. With a small group of trees, you may not be getting good fruit bearing. Likely need a group of 10 trees nearby and atleast 3 or 4 in the same pollinization gorup. I believe triploid pollen isn't a good polinator of other trees either.

I have places in both zone 5 borderline 6 and zone 3. Kerr is a good bet over there. All winter hangover is another good late season wildlife one. sweet 16, nova ezgro, and trailman are good zone 3 options. These are not ideal late season droppers though.

I have freedom and it's showing some cedar apple rust, but nothing bad.

Another option in zone 3 is whitetail crabs. He is offering droptine and 30-06 on anty rootstock. I planted them this year up in zone 3 adirondacks, near chummer and saint lawrence nurseries territory. Saint lawrence nursery and fedco are 2 places that have extensive zone 3 varieties. Besides variety, you need to keep an eye out on rootstock too. B118, antonovka, or dolgo would be good choices. Borderline zone 2, i'd probably leave B118 alone.

That is great to know about winecrisp. Gonna stay away from those and stick with the known producers mentioned here. Thanks!

 

[chummer]

Does dolgo hold any late or do they all drop in Sept.?

Most drop in September with a few stubborn ones.

 

[sandbur]

I've never done anything too exact & "techy", but from what I've researched over the years, universities recommend waiting until the year after planting to fertilize. (Opinions vary on that). I've just sprinkled a light handful of 10-10-10 around the drip line of second-year & third-year apple & crab trees. They get a balanced ratio of fertilizer, and it's not too strong so the trees get "burned" by it.

A Penn State professor in their fruit tree dept. told me via e-mail that good new growth on an apple tree is anywhere between 8" and 12" on the limb tips. That's the amount of growth to aim for. Less than that means it needs some fertilizer, more than that means too much vegetative growth. Too thick of a canopy and it can lead to disease problems. FWIW.

You guys up in the tundra may need different advice because of your sandy soil & harsh winters. Maybe check with U. Minnesota folks in the fruit tree dept. there.

I don’t think we want too much growth the first year in the north, especially late in the season. I don’t fertilize, but do add a handful of pel lime to the hole and work it in a bit, on certain soils. I do not do this on the best soils as they seem to have adequate pH.

 

[sandbur]

I bought some cheap Dolgo seedlings after reading through some of Sandbur’s info. Turned out they were very small fruits. While they have a place, it wasn’t what I was looking for so I grafted them over to Kerr and some other late hanging varieties. It was worth the experiment to me and the Dolgo will make good rootstock.

Buckman Crab is a dolgo rootstock which are seedlings. About 3/4 of my dolgo seedlings are bird sized crabs. Natural variation in the seedlings and other pollen sources in the area probably contribute to apple size.

I have another dolgo seedling with nice sized fruit and second year crop. Some of my red stemmed dolgo seedlings from Bluehills are approaching ten feet but no fruit yet. They are on my best soil but in a location where they get minimal care and are checked about 3-4 times a year.

 

[cavey]

Buckman Crab is a dolgo rootstock which are seedlings. About 3/4 of my dolgo seedlings are bird sized crabs. Natural variation in the seedlings and other pollen sources in the area probably contribute to apple size.

I have another dolgo seedling with nice sized fruit and second year crop. Some of my red stemmed dolgo seedlings from Bluehills are approaching ten feet but no fruit yet. They are on my best soil but in a location where they get minimal care and are checked about 3-4 times a year.

Welcome back sandbur.... your absence was missed

 

[cavey]

Welcome back sandbur.... your absence was missed

I should say during your absence you were missed .... words are hard for me, numbers are almost impossible lol good to see you back posting

 

[westonwhitetail]

That is great to know about winecrisp. Gonna stay away from those and stick with the known producers mentioned here. Thanks!

I have a second year winecrisp and was impressed it had 8-10 apples started this spring. I thinned them out this summer because it's a young tree, but I am happy with it and will plant more in the future. I have 17 trees currently and it seems to be doing well. I also like my liberty, seems to grow quicker than others for me and has produced a few apples for a young tree as well.

 

[bigboreblr]

Dont be scared about the triploid, they just need some niehgbors.

Mulled over buying them for $18 each with over $75 shipped free from stark nurseries when they mad a late may / early june clearance. made my mind up to get a few, then they sold out of semi-dwarf B118.