can you have too much fertilizer?

[eclipseman]

My local coop has urea and 19-19-19. I will be planting clover with rye on one side and brassica on the other. Please help me determine what to do.
Plot 1: says I need 0-60-0 for clover and 60-50-0 for brassica in pounds per acre.
Plot 2: says I need 0-60-80 for clover and 60-50-50 for brassica in pounds per acre.

How do you all think I should tackle this using the straight Urea (46-0-0) and 19-19-19?
Thanks!

 

[j-bird]

First of all realize that the 19-19-19 means in that entire 50 lbs only 9.5 lbs is N, 9.5 lbs is P and 9.5 lbs is K...the 19 means 19%. The first number is the percentage of Nitrogen (N), the second number is the percentage of Phosphate (P) and the third number is the percentage of Potash (K) in that bag. Your soil test will tell you how many actual pounds of that element you need to add. Because your soil test numbers show a fairly balanced need I personally would not be concerned with the Urea. So I say you look at those numbers from your soil tests and I see a lot of 50 and 60.....so. I say you apply 7 bags of the 19-19-19 PER ACRE to BOTH your plots.

Plot#1 clover - needs 60lbs of P & Brassica need 60lbs of N and 50lbs of P
Plot#2 clover - needs 60lbs of P and 80 lbs of K & Brassica needs 60lbs of N, 50 lbs of P, and 50lbs of K
My suggestion will provide 66.5 lbs of N, 66.5 lbs of P and 66.5 lbs of K (7 - 50 lbs bags (total of 350 lbs) of 19-19-19). Yes you will have some stuff you don't need, but you don't have much choice. ALL ON A PER ACRE BASIS.

I keep stating per acre - because if your total plot area is 1/2 acre - then you need to by HALF of the 350 total pounds of fertilizer, but if your total plotting acres is 3 acres, then you need to buy 3 times the 350lbs.

And to address the "can you have too much"......yes. It can either cause issues with the plant development (even kill it) or go to waste (waste of your time and money) or worse yet create pollution in surface and ground water (now your doing more harm than good). The thing I try to do if possible is work the fertilizer into the soil at planting time. This at least helps the fertilizer stay where it should.

 

[yoderjac]

Yes, I too was confused when you said the plot needs x-y-z. Most soil tests come back saying how many pound of the underlying element (N, P, K) are needed per acre.

I realize you are just starting out and following the soil test fertilizer recommendation is probably your best course for now. However, keep in mind that those recommendations are for farmers who are trying to maximize the yield of a monoculture and who remove much of the nutrients when they harvest. Wildlife managers are in a different situation. We often plant mixes of complementary plants and we don't harvest. When we learn to minimize tillage we can improve soil health and maximize nutrient cycling.

I just wanted to plant these seeds in your mind for longer-term consideration.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[eclipseman]

First of all realize that the 19-19-19 means in that entire 50 lbs only 9.5 lbs is N, 9.5 lbs is P and 9.5 lbs is K...the 19 means 19%. The first number is the percentage of Nitrogen (N), the second number is the percentage of Phosphate (P) and the third number is the percentage of Potash (K) in that bag. Your soil test will tell you how many actual pounds of that element you need to add. Because your soil test numbers show a fairly balanced need I personally would not be concerned with the Urea. So I say you look at those numbers from your soil tests and I see a lot of 50 and 60.....so. I say you apply 7 bags of the 19-19-19 PER ACRE to BOTH your plots.

Plot#1 clover - needs 60lbs of P & Brassica need 60lbs of N and 50lbs of P
Plot#2 clover - needs 60lbs of P and 80 lbs of K & Brassica needs 60lbs of N, 50 lbs of P, and 50lbs of K
My suggestion will provide 66.5 lbs of N, 66.5 lbs of P and 66.5 lbs of K (7 - 50 lbs bags (total of 350 lbs) of 19-19-19). Yes you will have some stuff you don't need, but you don't have much choice. ALL ON A PER ACRE BASIS.

I keep stating per acre - because if your total plot area is 1/2 acre - then you need to by HALF of the 350 total pounds of fertilizer, but if your total plotting acres is 3 acres, then you need to buy 3 times the 350lbs.

And to address the "can you have too much"......yes. It can either cause issues with the plant development (even kill it) or go to waste (waste of your time and money) or worse yet create pollution in surface and ground water (now your doing more harm than good). The thing I try to do if possible is work the fertilizer into the soil at planting time. This at least helps the fertilizer stay where it should.

Thanks for the comments! It makes sense. Last year I just did what the Coop told me and I do not think I had enough fertilizer as much of my plots yellowed. My pH was fine (did a soil test last year as well) and applied lime so it was lack of fertilizer or some other environmental impact. We had good rain. Anyways, thanks for explaining it to me! I was just unsure if you could over fertilize.

 

[eclipseman]

Yes, I too was confused when you said the plot needs x-y-z. Most soil tests come back saying how many pound of the underlying element (N, P, K) are needed per acre.

I realize you are just starting out and following the soil test fertilizer recommendation is probably your best course for now. However, keep in mind that those recommendations are for farmers who are trying to maximize the yield of a monoculture and who remove much of the nutrients when they harvest. Wildlife managers are in a different situation. We often plant mixes of complementary plants and we don't harvest. When we learn to minimize tillage we can improve soil health and maximize nutrient cycling.

I just wanted to plant these seeds in your mind for longer-term consideration.

Thanks,

Jack

I have been reading a lot about different forms of plants (tilling, no tilling, throw and mow...etc.) Now that I am understanding more I was try for more of a no tillage plan but I do not have ANY access to a seed drill and do not have the money for one. My goal is to get half my plots going nice in clover. The other half I will do mixes of brassica, rye...etc. How do you go about not having to till these areas each year?

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

If your just planting small seeds like clover or turnips you will never have to worry about tilling. Cereal grains like rye and wheat aren't fussy either. If you have a backpack sprayer and the means to mow you are good to go.

 

[eclipseman]

If your just planting small seeds like clover or turnips you will never have to worry about tilling. Cereal grains like rye and wheat aren't fussy either. If you have a backpack sprayer and the means to mow you are good to go.

So spray, broadcast seed and mow? How do you know the seed is getting down to soil and through any thatch?

 

[bbcoach]

Yellowing in brassicas is nitrogen defiency. 34-0-0 or 46-0-0 just before a good rain will remedy the yellowing. A light dusting will take care of it. Since brassicas love nitrogen, put some down at planting and again at the 3 to 4 leaf stage (about a month after planting). Clover doesn't require nitrogen so P and K only. If your PH is around 6.5 in both plots, plant away and Good Luck.

 

[scott44]

So spray, broadcast seed and mow? How do you know the seed is getting down to soil and through any thatch?

You don't know if the seed is getting to the ground but I believe some of it will still germinate in the thatch and some of it will make soil contact. I've done this throw and mow/roll with brassicas and the only time it didn't work is when I tried it without spraying, last year I braodcast the seed rolled it and walked away. I had some germination and bulbs but not much, too much competition good thing was most of what I rolled was clover so I had a good clover stand but hardly any brassicas.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

So spray, broadcast seed and mow? How do you know the seed is getting down to soil and through any thatch?

There shouldnt be much thatch before you mow. Besides seeds like clover and brassica are tiny. They will find there way down to the soil when you mow it.

 

[j-bird]

"E" - the small seeds can be planted with a method called "throw and mow" - there may be a thread on this forum....just dig a little. Some folks have real good luck with it. But the general intent is to spray the weeds, broadcast the smaller seed and then knock down the dead standing weeds. Those weeds will act like when you use straw to cover grass seed. The reason is that working the soil can bring up more weed seed and reduce soil moisture. Many of the cereal grains and the smaller hard seeds like clover and turnips will germinate as long as they are getting seed/soil contact and the rain will typically get you that. Like was mentioned Urea can be applied after the brassica is up as well IF you see signs of a need for it.

 

[yoderjac]

I have been reading a lot about different forms of plants (tilling, no tilling, throw and mow...etc.) Now that I am understanding more I was try for more of a no tillage plan but I do not have ANY access to a seed drill and do not have the money for one. My goal is to get half my plots going nice in clover. The other half I will do mixes of brassica, rye...etc. How do you go about not having to till these areas each year?

Start by watching Ray the Soil guy: https://vimeo.com/channels/raythesoilguy/23850878 Start with his infiltration video and watch a few more. You will pickup on the concepts. Most of this is focused on big farmers with large no-till equipment. Next, read some to the Crimson N Camo threads on this forum. He takes Ray's soil health concepts and applies them to food plotters with small equipment.

I do have a small no-till drill, but most of what I do is min-till. I use a 3-pt tiller and raise it so high that it barely hits the top inch of soil. For most of what we plant for deer this is plenty to get good seed soil contact. The other big factor is suppressing weeds with herbicides like gly.

You don't need big equipment to minimize or even eliminate tillage. I'm working on building OM so that I can eventually go full no-till

Thanks,

Jack