Busted antlers - good sign, or bad?

j-bird

Moderator
I have noticed on my property that once a deer reaches roughly 3 1/2 years of age they seem to have busted up racks. I have 3 of my own, my boy has one and a buddy of mine took one and they all carry some sort of "battle scare". Broken tines, facial scares, torn ears or wounds of some sort and one was even blind in one eye with significant damage to the lense of that eye. I am not sure if this is a good or a bad thing. On one hand this means the older bucks are battling over does - so that means I have other bucks for them to fight with and they feel that "need" to do so. On the other hand I am concerned that this means my area may lack a truely dominent buck to keep these other "rough-housers" in check. I don't see it as much in my yonger deer, but Idon't think they "go at it" as hard either.
 
I look at that as a good sign that you have enough mature bucks that they have to fight each other. I would much rather have a property that produces busted up mature bucks than one that produces primarily 1.5's and the occasional 2.5 year old with perfect racks.

The only thing that might concern me is if the cause of the antler damage was some type of mineral deficiency, but I have absolutely no idea how you could determine that.
 
Once a buck is 2 yrs or older he can have the personality to feel like he runs the place no matter the size of his rack. I guess I to would rather have busted up bucks running aound than not.
 
As you get closer to 1/1 buck to doe ratio you will notice more busted racks as Novemberforever stated. Get them early before they start fighting. Good because there is more competition, daylight sightings go up and makes it easier to hunt bucks. Bad the bucks have busted racks when you see them.
 
The thing is I don't see them early. My property lacks a lot of cover and as such primrily holds does and not the older bucks. The older bucks we get a crack at come during the rut from other properties in their pursuit of does. If I had to guess my ratio based on sightings I would guess I have far more does than bucks so I don't think it's a ratio thing. I do have lower deer numbers and I think that is what drives this comeptative behavior so much. There simply are not alot of does to breed so they battle for every one they find. I also don't think it is a mineral issue (thats just an opinion). I will ask another question tied to this then. Is it common for bucks to battle only bucks rougly the same size? I have seen smaller bucks cower around a decoy with much larger antlers, while bucks of similar size are not as intimidated. Will bucks essentially fight outside their "weight class" ?????
 
The thing is I don't see them early. My property lacks a lot of cover and as such primrily holds does and not the older bucks. The older bucks we get a crack at come during the rut from other properties in their pursuit of does. If I had to guess my ratio based on sightings I would guess I have far more does than bucks so I don't think it's a ratio thing. I do have lower deer numbers and I think that is what drives this comeptative behavior so much. There simply are not alot of does to breed so they battle for every one they find. I also don't think it is a mineral issue (thats just an opinion). I will ask another question tied to this then. Is it common for bucks to battle only bucks rougly the same size? I have seen smaller bucks cower around a decoy with much larger antlers, while bucks of similar size are not as intimidated. Will bucks essentially fight outside their "weight class" ?????

I think a lot has to do with personality. Some bucks are fighters...some are not...regardless of age or "weight class"

I also think 3 yr olds get in the most fights...they are kinda like 21 yr olds out drinking and doing stupid things...like fighting every other dude that looks at them. If you have a lot of bucks in the 3 yr class every year than there are gonna get broken up.
 
I think that the buck's attitude has more to do with his willingness to fight than his body or antler size. I also think that the older bucks generally keep the youngsters in check, but once they get 3.5 or older anything can happen.

Last fall I watched a 4.5 year old 8 pointer (we killed him and sent a tooth in for aging, so we know his age) that only scored 108" and field dressed around 150-160 pounds act like he was king of the mountain. He had a short, stocky body and a compact rack with short tine length and decent mass - just the kind of rack that is unlikely to break tines. We watched this buck push around bucks that had larger racks and bodies. We never saw a knock down, drag out type fight, but based on the number of bucks we saw with broken antlers, we know they happened. That buck acted like he owned that particular area and he was sparring and posturing other bucks whenever we saw him. It was pretty cool to see that in real life, especially with an older buck with a smaller rack. That deer seemed to act like he was the largest buck in the world. I think once bucks with an angry disposition get to a certain age, they'll fight anything that won't back down regardless of their body or antler size.
 
If I had to guess my ratio based on sightings I would guess I have far more does than bucks so I don't think it's a ratio thing.

Perhaps you should look at the ratio over the whole neighborhood instead of just on your property. You may have the best habitat around and so ALL the does are on your place with relatively few elsewhere.

I know out in northwestern Nebraska where we hunt, you can watch the bucks' racks get busted up as the week goes on---they must fight all night long. In 2008 I remember a particular 9-pointer that I saw opening day that was a 6-pointer two days later, and a 3-pointer two days after that. Last season, broken racks saved the lives of two formerly 160-class bucks.
 
I tend to agree with the consensus that it probably isn't mineral based. And if it were ratio based, would anyone really consider putting the ratio out of whack in hopes of preventing broken tines?

IME there's only one practical way to see fewer broken tines - follow Terrific's suggestion to hunt earlier season to catch them before the damage is done. If they haven't been there early, they may not be there early (but they might). Why does taking a great buck mean so much? Because we study their travel habits (eating habits, social habits...),we put in the hours early season (late season, midday all season...), we pass on the broken tines, (small tines, unbalanced tines...) and in a random heartbeat our shooter appears.

J-bird wondered if busted antlers were a good thing or a bad thing. I'd suggest that it's neither. It's hunting...
 
Kskid, I was much more concerned about it being some sort of indication of my deer herd. I have only once EVER passed a buck based on his antlers being damaged - he only had one. My property has it's limitations and I am begining to embrace those instead of working against it. I just wondered what folks thoughts on the subject would be.
 
I just wondered what folks thoughts on the subject would be.

That's what I offered. Was something in my post inappropriate?
 
Kskid - I sort of read your post in a manner that I was bellyaching about broken tines and hinting that I was more concernd with the score in your opinion and that I should simply get over it. Looking back at it - I think I was simply in a negative frame of mind. I simply mis-read and mis-understood.

I was not offended. I was simply replying to re-state my concern was a genuine concern and not me crying over some silly deduction. It is always difficult to truely communicate your intent with only the written word (even though those silly little faces help - haha). I will also say that I appreciate your posting regarding the clarity on the matter. Like I said I was not offended - and I appreciate your follow up to ensure we all are on the same page. Not eveyone would do that. I will simply chalk this up as I was having a bad day and simply mis-read and mis-interpruted your post - if anything I owe you the appology.


We cool?
 
I have noticed on my property that once a deer reaches roughly 3 1/2 years of age they seem to have busted up racks. I have 3 of my own, my boy has one and a buddy of mine took one and they all carry some sort of "battle scare". Broken tines, facial scares, torn ears or wounds of some sort and one was even blind in one eye with significant damage to the lense of that eye. I am not sure if this is a good or a bad thing. On one hand this means the older bucks are battling over does - so that means I have other bucks for them to fight with and they feel that "need" to do so. On the other hand I am concerned that this means my area may lack a truely dominent buck to keep these other "rough-housers" in check. I don't see it as much in my yonger deer, but Idon't think they "go at it" as hard either.
Maybe you are just in a "rough" neighborhood? Have you noticed an increase of foot traffic, liquor stores, pawn shops, title/payday loan stores, and broken beer bottles?
 
Thats what I got Bueller - Street Thugs and Gangsters. In all honesty I see very little scraping and rubbing activity. This past year I had one tree they shreaded, but I think this is because my buck and my boys buck where trying to send each other a message and may have had a throw down or two. Doesn't matter my boy and I brought guns - we settled it once and for all - the street (and that poor bassword tree) appear to be safe once again! Just cleaning up the neighborhood one deer season at a time!!!
 

J-bird, Absolutely cool. I agree that it's easy to miscommunicate with just writing. I didn't intend to offend. I'll try to be more aware of overtones, etc. Thank you for your reply.
 
Kskid, I want to offer a little different perspective. My thoughts are that I want to see what we are capable of growing, what's our max potential. If we have bully bucks and the resulting fights are leading to deer having busted racks, I want to try to identify the bully. He may be a 115" 6 y/o with a bad attitude. He would become a definite target deer for 2 reasons. One he is fully mature and I like chasing old bucks with my bow. But he also gets on the list because I don't want him pushing higher potential bucks off of the property.

We don't know what we can grow because of the way the property was shot up by previous owners. We may top out at 140 and that's fine by me but to the extent possible, however small that may be, we want to eliminate bully bucks. Same also goes for the old does.
 
Hi Bryant. I wish you every success.
 
When we first bought our property we saw a lot of busted racks. After two years with mineral licks, there were far fewer busted tines. They hammer the mineral licks in NE Kansas. In Dakota county, MN, they hardly touch it.

I can't say it is the mineral, but it could be. Tons of pictures on the mineral licks too.
 
I avoid minerals simply because our regulations consider it baiting yet the enforcement of it is up to the judgement of the officer. This means if I have a site several hundred yards away I could still be nailed! It isn't worth that to me. If my state would publish some sort of "limitations" then Imight consider adding a mineral site (still other potential issues to consider with minerals).
 
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