Best way to “treat” existing perennial clover/rye plots

[Derek Reese 29]

Have a couple ~0.25-0.5 acre clover/chicory/alfalfa/rye/brassica (or some combo thereof) type plots on several different properties. They are from 0.25-3 years since initial spray of gly and planting (most started in late summer but some in spring) In the forums collective opinion…and noting that I need to communicate clearly with other people about “The Plan”, what would be your choice as to how to keep those plots going strong..
My thoughts are as such:
1. Frost seed into the plots that aren’t that weedy then go back and either spot spray the worst of it (if grass is bad, with cleth), or just mow to maintain
2. If weeds/grass are starting to become an issue, spray with cleth and/or IMOX then mow a few times later (like May then again in July) to get clover rejuvenated.
3. If the weeds are real bad (at spring flush), let rye grow and maybe even try to sneak in a spring seeding then mow rye and smoke them all with gly once rye is mature in late summer and start over.
Don’t really love to spray but would do it on certain plots that are easily accessible (those at my house) or those that have really been productive. Am very tempted just to try to mow a lot more than I have been as an experiment so like a split field and track it through the year…suggestions always appreciated!

 

[bigboreblr]

I think the answer may shift if you're mowing them periodically or not.

There is a thread somewhere in here where a guy sprays a light dose of rye in the early spring. I think his rye in there got terminated and let the clover more or less be a monocrop.

2,4db is another option with broadleaf issues. Kills certain boradleafs while leaving your rye n clover more or less alone.

Basagran is an option, butharms clover significantly. I don't tink it quite kills mature clover, but young clover is toast. I use this to combat sedge.

Can quite say for sure with rye, but with wheat and aots at certain stages of it's life, you run the grain over it's dead.

You got certain big monster weeds, you can spot spray those. Stuff growing taller than your desired planting, yu can get or make a weed wiper. Basicaly a wet surface wth gly that touches the taller stuff.

MY plot at home I sprayed and disced 1/2 of it with an ATV disc. Left the other half alone. I also expanded the food plot by about 50% more.. Kind of scratch results here. I put rye in the left alone clover spot. nothing grew. We had a real dry fall. I'm not sure what to do with it this spring. Likely rototill it and go with oats / clover. Seeded frosty berseem into it, as well as the tilled area.

I think we like to plant rye a little to late. We want it young and tender for hunting season. However, we might be spraying gly a little too late to kill weeds before they make seed. I think Id and targeting certain weeds is a better option. Pick your battles. Dont start a war when there isn't a problem either. The buckwheat summer switch might be a good one for certain weeds. Gives you chance to kill your weeds with gly and have something to smother weed seeds.

Spring seeding rye is a tool you can use too. Kill young weeds with a light gly and put a good dose of rye in there.

Whats your target weeds? I know youn mentioned it before, forgot what it is.

Weeds proliferate where other plants do not. Not only soil type, but soil condition. I let plntain proliferate because it like compacted soil. Probably one of my main problems. I also get localized flooding that kiils stuff in my plot. Red aramath enjoys that opportunity.

Mowing can help offset weed problems, but again other weeds find it as an opportunity. Especially ones that can make seed again. smartweed is a weed like that. red amaranth can do that too.

Alot of hunters just focus on fall for their foodplots. I am doing a several year rye n spray plot at camp. Throwing in some brassicas and clovers, but no other maintenance. golden rod grows very tall in there. Sedge is in there too, but takes a backseat.

Been contemplating doing this. Spray a light dose of gly when the cool season stuff is emerging. Let the clover live for a few weeks after that. Check the soil temps about 1 inch down. When temps seem to be a solid 65 degree or more for a week, then throw down a good dose of gly and 2,4D. Kill everything. Then put something for the summer like clover n buckwheat. Then go back to your fall rotation.

Rye is very tall and can mask problems underneath it. Trying to combat weeds when things are mature and tall is tough, if not close to impossible. Folks try to balance nature with various crops at different times. However, natures crops is growing all around us wanting to go back into your plot. Seeing my plot over the years and seeing others on here. Seems like rebuilding a plot every few years is not a bad idea at all.

 

[bigboreblr]

Another issue I have which you likely have, young fruit trees. I have a M7 bareroot sundance planted this spring, a M111 I grafted with sundance this past spring, a few arborviate I planted last winter right next to my plot. I also have 2-6ft tall white spruce I transplanted about 10 yards away from the plot edge. This might be my last year I can do tillage on the edge of my plot. Thinking of removing the M111 and putting another M7 there so the roots might stay a bit shorter from the tree.

I dug up my nursery tree garden last year. I had roots from year 1 at 6ft away. I had some destroyed antonovka from the year before I grafted on year 2. Those 2 years in the nursery roots were over 10ft away. This is on a 3-4ft tall tree.. Could be my last year to use certain herbicides on the plot edge too. There different answers whether 2,4D damages trees or not. Ground contact that is.

What are you mowing with? Certain mowers spread cuttings, some mower just dump them in one spot. Dumpin in one spot make problems where certain weed take advantage of it. Mower blade speed vs tractor speed can fix that. IF using a traditonal bush hog, make sure your knives are good down there. I find the swisher open deck mowers to be real good at their job. I thought your using a 9n to mow? IF your using mowing long term with a bush hog, I suggest you look for a finish mower or flail. They chop things up much better.

 

[RGrizzzz]

I think we need more of an explanation of how the plots look to make the best recommendation. Have you addressed pH and fertility in the plots too?

My general suggestion would be to hit it with Imox as things start to green up. Remember, you want to spray most weeds/grasses in the 3" range for the best kill. Imox will have some residual as things germinate. Duration is rainfall dependent.

 

[omicron1792]

I think we need more of an explanation of how the plots look to make the best recommendation. Have you addressed pH and fertility in the plots too?

My general suggestion would be to hit it with Imox as things start to green up. Remember, you want to spray most weeds/grasses in the 3" range for the best kill. Imox will have some residual as things germinate. Duration is rainfall dependent.

This. Add some cleth also if grass heavy

 

[Derek Reese 29]

This. Add some cleth also if grass heavy

Had thought to just do cleth then now to keep broadleaves under control and so as to have no chance at hurting the existing and then to be newly planted fruit trees (I know you guys said Imox won’t hurt them..but still nervous)

 

[RGrizzzz]

Had thought to just do cleth then now to keep broadleaves under control and so as to have no chance at hurting the existing and then to be newly planted fruit trees (I know you guys said Imox won’t hurt them..but still nervous)

What kind of sprayer are you using? A boom sprayer reasonably close to the ground on a non-windy day shouldn't have much drift. Just keep some reasonable distance, or figure out which way the wind is blowing, and make sure it's away from the fruit trees as added precaution.

 

[omicron1792]

It won’t hurt them! Even if sprays on them. But if you do like Grizz and just try to spray away from them you’ll be double safe

 

[Derek Reese 29]

I use a small 4 wheeler boom sprayer that’s about 2.5’ off the ground gets about a 6-8’ wide swath per pass but unusually tighten it up closer than that..

 

[bigboreblr]

Had thought to just do cleth then now to keep broadleaves under control and so as to have no chance at hurting the existing and then to be newly planted fruit trees (I know you guys said Imox won’t hurt them..but still nervous)

clethodim does grasses. not necesarily stuff that looks like grass. clethodim doesn't bother broadleaves. Often used in vineyards and tree farms. Used at times for vegetable farming.

 

[matinc]

Big it appears my rye broadcasted last fall at 300 pounds per acre either some or most did not germinate due to the drought. I am going to roll the dice and let the fields go on living through the summer. This way I keep building OM during the year and either go with throw and mow or throw and crimp next labor day. I am hoping the rye germinates in the spring and I can get a huge crimp next fall. Spending only 1.5 laps around a field per year is my goal.

 

[omicron1792]

Big it appears my rye broadcasted last fall at 300 pounds per acre either some or most did not germinate due to the drought. I am going to roll the dice and let the fields go on living through the summer. This way I keep building OM during the year and either go with throw and mow or throw and crimp next labor day. I am hoping the rye germinates in the spring and I can get a huge crimp next fall. Spending only 1.5 laps around a field per year is my goal.

That’s a good goal Mat. Just know that sometimes it takes 5 years or so to get to that “easy button” point. Lots of grinding in the early days.

 

[bigboreblr]

matinc, maybe toss a light dose of rye around this spring, or in the bad spots.

Forgot to mention the clethodim needs crop oil. Clethodim is quite oily and needs somehing for it to mix with the water. Sometimes the crop oil burns broadleafs a bit. Often a 2nd dose is needed to kill the grasses too.

 

[Derek Reese 29]

matinc, maybe toss a light dose of rye around this spring, or in the bad spots.

Forgot to mention the clethodim needs crop oil. Clethodim is quite oily and needs somehing for it to mix with the water. Sometimes the crop oil burns broadleafs a bit. Often a 2nd dose is needed to kill the grasses too.

Wouldn’t mind burning the broadleaves either but was only gonna do cleth to take out the majority of the grass before mowing the broadleaves.

Also..does spring planting rye work? Doesn’t it get too big or do you just plant it for some green then mow it in the summer when the clover over whatever underneath is doing well?

 

[bigboreblr]

Not a major experiment, but it seems to work. I have solar pool heaters i put on my lawn. It kills the grass. Put rye in there and just swirled it in with a lawn rake in the spring. It grew ok. You can almost treat it like lawn grass. I kept it mowed until I put the panels back on it in june


I did the gly inthe sprin thing. It seemed the clover took a long time to recover. Might of went too hot. AG farmers dial in their gly sprays with ammonium sulfate and some check thr pH too. They want it in the low 5 'si think.

 

[omicron1792]

Wouldn’t mind burning the broadleaves either but was only gonna do cleth to take out the majority of the grass before mowing the broadleaves.

Also..does spring planting rye work? Doesn’t it get too big or do you just plant it for some green then mow it in the summer when the clover over whatever underneath is doing well?

Yes. It works very well. Not as good if using a roller crimper. But if just letting it grow or using herbicide it does great.

 

[RGrizzzz]

Also..does spring planting rye work? Doesn’t it get too big or do you just plant it for some green then mow it in the summer when the clover over whatever underneath is doing well?

I'd go with oats in the spring.

 

[Kdog]

I would use NIS instead of crop oil.

 

[Randy6471]

I’m pretty much in line with what others have said…
1. Frost seed heavy.
2. Spray Imox early, before grass/weeds get too tall. (3-4”) I like to add a little cleth to get a better kill on rye that I over seeded last fall. I prefer Imox over 24DB, because 24DB will kill chicory. I have in the past used a light dose of gly, but I didn’t like the results and I don’t want to risk creating any more gly tolerant weeds than what I have now.
3. Low N fertilizer @ 2-300#’s/ac.
4. Mow 2-3x’s during the summer (depending on weather) for any additional broadleaf weeds.
5. Basagran for specific weeds, if needed late summer. I have 2 plots that get overrun with thistle and 2 doses of basagran, sprayed 7-10 days apart in August, will clean them up.
6. I also avoid using crop oil. NIS and/or Nitro-surf.