Best use of equipment

Snoop

5 year old buck +
I’d like a little advice. I’d like to eventually get to no till everything, but it might be a couple years before I can save enough $$$ for a no till drill.
I’ve started on a 2 acre plot last fall . I did a couple rounds of glyphosate and planted WR & clover cover crop. It came in well but got grazed pretty hard.

I have a 50hp John Deere, 6’ brush hog, a DR pull behind, JD 2 row corn planter, seed spreader & a new 7’ roller crimper.
What would be my best option going forward? As far as what to plant & when to terminate.

Objective is to feed the deer & turkeys as well as building OM for soil health until I can afford a no till drill.
I’m in southern Indiana zone 6a. 300 acres mostly wooded, probably 60 acres are tillable, a creek running through the middle and a 3 acres pond.
I’ll be retiring at the end of the year so I’ll have more time to work on these projects.
Watched a lot of Grant Woods & Jeff Sturgis videos. I really like “growing deer tv”
 
It sounds like you are on the right path. Do your best to keep something growing all year. I like mixes, but have a NT drill, which helps. I would broadcast your summer annuals, preferably a mix, and crimp the rye down on them. In the fall, plant rye, with a mix of brassicas, maybe some medium red clover, peas or leftover beans, oats. I also like planting sorghum in my summer mix, sometimes heavy, sometimes light. A heavy sorghum crop smothers weeds pretty well.
 
I’d like a little advice. I’d like to eventually get to no till everything, but it might be a couple years before I can save enough $$$ for a no till drill.
I’ve started on a 2 acre plot last fall . I did a couple rounds of glyphosate and planted WR & clover cover crop. It came in well but got grazed pretty hard.

I have a 50hp John Deere, 6’ brush hog, a DR pull behind, JD 2 row corn planter, seed spreader & a new 7’ roller crimper.
What would be my best option going forward? As far as what to plant & when to terminate.

Objective is to feed the deer & turkeys as well as building OM for soil health until I can afford a no till drill.
I’m in southern Indiana zone 6a. 300 acres mostly wooded, probably 60 acres are tillable, a creek running through the middle and a 3 acres pond.
I’ll be retiring at the end of the year so I’ll have more time to work on these projects.
Watched a lot of Grant Woods & Jeff Sturgis videos. I really like “growing deer tv”

It sounds like your off to a good start with your intent. I would question the "feeding deer" aspect with only 300 acres unless you have some influence on adjoining land. We have about 400 with another 400 cooperating and we are on the ratty edge of being able to QDM. You really do need scale. You may want to consider improving your hunting as a more realistic goal and any deer benefit from your work as a bonus.

I would not worry about a no-till drill for now. There are a lot of min-till/no-till techniques you can use. I have a small Kasco 4' no-till versa-drill. I used it a lot when I was planting beans with a light mix of corn for vertical cover. I had an issue with Marestail and using gly for post-emergence on beans was making the problem worse. I went to buckwheat/sunn hemp for a summer crop. I surface broadcast/ spray, and cultipack only. For fall I rotate that into WR/CC/PTT. All of these can be no-till planted by surface broadcasting and cultipacking. My Kasco has a great seed metering system and can plant about any mix, but I don't use it. Broadcasting and cultipacking is so much faster adn the results are just as good.

Take a look at the T&M thread of Crimson and Camo and you'll see a lot of examples of different folks doing no-till without a drill.

For building OM, the key for crop choice is a balance between legumes (N) and grasses (C). It's just like composting!

Thanks,


Jack
 
I would suggest that you read through the LICK CREEK threads and apply what he says to your plots.
 
I would suggest that you read through the LICK CREEK threads and apply what he says to your plots.
Hmmm. I may be wrong....but I dont remember Paul (Lick Creek) ever doing any no-till plots. Or...maybe I was not paying attention? Things change a bit when going to reduced till, regenerative ag, and / or no till.
 
What's your soil like?

I have heavy clay and no till corn and beans with a jd71 planter, no coulters or trash whippers, just opening wheels with the original rubber tires that ride over the seed furrows. I try to time it with rain. I have the seed depth set as deep as the disk openers will go, approx 2".

Otherwise all other seeds I broadcast and follow Paul Knox's directions of broadcasting, spraying, rolling/dragging to get good no till plots.

I broadcast rye into standing beans and corn in late summer for a quality standing cover crop/plot that help maintain soil quality
 
Hmmm. I may be wrong....but I dont remember Paul (Lick Creek) ever doing any no-till plots. Or...maybe I was not paying attention? Things change a bit when going to reduced till, regenerative ag, and / or no till.

I wasn't into this whole thing when Paul was around but have read through the Lick Creek threads. I don't recall an emphasis on no-till but he did mention his son Jesse no-till drilling the LC mix in some of his late posts and the mixes are good T&M options.
 
I was pointing him to things to plant for year 'round food as he stated it would be a couple years before no-tilling. Title was confusing to me. My bad
 
Nothing wrong with suggesting to read anything by Paul Knox

His passion for all things habitat and genuine love for his fellow man jump off every page of his posts

They never get old

bill
 
Hmmm. I may be wrong....but I dont remember Paul (Lick Creek) ever doing any no-till plots. Or...maybe I was not paying attention? Things change a bit when going to reduced till, regenerative ag, and / or no till.

Paul did no-til fairly often.

OP - Many options with the tools you have:

- Frost seed via spreader ASAP mixture into your current plot to add diversity (pending climate zone).

- Plant green with that 2 row planter right into the rye (provided it has down pressure springs). Many options here for summer mixtures, soybeans, etc. Maybe nuke the clover first if going beans route.

- Do a throw and crimp into the rye, right before a rain if possible.

Good luck!
 
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Nothing wrong with suggesting to read anything by Paul Knox

His passion for all things habitat and genuine love for his fellow man jump off every page of his posts

They never get old

bill

Another Truth bomb by Daddy :emoji_sunglasses:.
 
Why do it yourself. Can you lease the land to a farmer, let them do the work, collect some money, and enjoy the harvest of the farmer's pests....

There are avid hunters with ample amounts of land in NY that plant quality forage hay, harvest the hay, and enjoy the fall season from 20ft above..... Alfalpha or grain legume mixes.

There is a very good market for organic these days. not sure how dormant your stuff is and how long you can be without spraying.

No farm expert, but a 50hp JD could do round bales.

Certain clovers do better with high grazing pressure.

Nothing wrong with a used grain drill for a grand or two. Also, woods and brillion seeders can be dought used for very little money.

Not sure what your pH or rock situation is. But, you'd want that in good specs before going no-till.

Also, just going fallow can be good too. Sometimes a annual mowing or discing the soil can make good forage for deer in some situations. All depends on whats there already for "weeds"
 
It sounds like your off to a good start with your intent. I would question the "feeding deer" aspect with only 300 acres unless you have some influence on adjoining land. We have about 400 with another 400 cooperating and we are on the ratty edge of being able to QDM. You really do need scale. You may want to consider improving your hunting as a more realistic goal and any deer benefit from your work as a bonus.

I would not worry about a no-till drill for now. There are a lot of min-till/no-till techniques you can use. I have a small Kasco 4' no-till versa-drill. I used it a lot when I was planting beans with a light mix of corn for vertical cover. I had an issue with Marestail and using gly for post-emergence on beans was making the problem worse. I went to buckwheat/sunn hemp for a summer crop. I surface broadcast/ spray, and cultipack only. For fall I rotate that into WR/CC/PTT. All of these can be no-till planted by surface broadcasting and cultipacking. My Kasco has a great seed metering system and can plant about any mix, but I don't use it. Broadcasting and cultipacking is so much faster adn the results are just as good.

Take a look at the T&M thread of Crimson and Camo and you'll see a lot of examples of different folks doing no-till without a drill.

For building OM, the key for crop choice is a balance between legumes (N) and grasses (C). It's just like composting!

Thanks,


Jack

Saying the results of surface broadcasting compared to a real no-till drill are "just as good," is poor advice, at best.
 
It depends if you are planting to manage deer or farming. In many cases they are better for me!
 
It depends if you are planting to manage deer or farming. In many cases they are better for me!

Do you have peer reviewed scientific documentation? Just kidding. Also, I said a "real" NT drill, not that junk you use. I've seen one in action. You're right, throwing seed in the air would be better.
 
My point to the OP was that for deer management purposes, one can focus on soil health and provide great deer food without a no-till drill. While it does take a lot finesse to get the old Kasco no-till versadrill to perform compared to a high end drill, once you have got it set right, there is no difference in performance. When you objective is deer management at scale, if you select the right seed and adjust seeding rates properly, you really can get just as good results with T&M as with the drill. There is no difference in how deer relate to my plots if they are drilled or surface broadcast and cultiopacked.

By the way, I do own that little Kasco because it was quite affordable used. I have, however, run a variety of drills doing conservation work over the years. There certainly are conditions under which they would perform better than surface broadcasting. For example, if you have dry conditions and no rain for a while after you plant. The drill puts the seed where the most moisture is. But under normal conditions here when spring and fall rain are pretty reliable, I can usually time a plant so that is not a problem.

If I had a 10' Tye or similar drill, I would probably use it, but at 4' per pass with the little Kasco, I only use it for large seed like beans, corn, and the like which don't surface broadcast well. However, I've found other crops that support my deer just as well that don't require the drill.
 
Not sure your plans with the 60 acres tillable. But, if you had a good sized front mounted spreader, you could spread small grains while you roll crimp the existing vegetation in.

Is that crimper fillable?
 
Not sure your plans with the 60 acres tillable. But, if you had a good sized front mounted spreader, you could spread small grains while you roll crimp the existing vegetation in.

Is that crimper fillable?

I've though long and hard about a crimper. I like the fact that it replaces herbicides with mechanical means, but I really think you need the right crop. It works well on WR for example if you hit it at the right stage of growth. I'm not sure how it would work on a field with a mix of weeds and other crops. For example I do use WR as part of a fall mix, but I also use CC in that mix. I don't think a crimper would terminate the CC. I guess even non-selective herbicides don't kill everything either, but they set most back enough for my planted seed to germinate.

While I haven't talked myself into a crimper yet, I may somewhere down the line.

Thanks,

Jack
 
MY brother in law plants over 4000 acres. He hires pilots to plant winter rye into standing soybeans. No till period.... No cultipacker. He does it about 2 to 3 weeks before harvest.

He does broadcast with the sprayer tractor, but uses aircraft when he cant get there with the tractors. He does crops almost 300 miles from his farm.

Dont take much to make a good stand of rye. Broadcasting seed at the right time can do a great job.

Also, no mention of the 60 acres AG whats going on in there. IF you're leasing out the land, you could also the renter to put in winter cover crops. That would be a massive improvement without any or little of your effort. Even asking them to put in medium red clover hwile they spread lime / fertilizer in the winter. As mentioned, some AG sprayer tractors can spread seed at the same time.

IT may be hard to get a farmer on board with this. Some farmers are hesitant to try to till and traditional plant into standing rye. They may not have the equipment. You could mix clover and fertilizer in that broadcast spreader after harvest and put in areas where the deer feel more comfortable. Around brushier cover, alongside hedgerows, in lower dips in the field, or the shortest path across the field. Although you got that crimper, I'd go with red clover. You'll have to terminate the clover before the corn or beans. Harrow or spray if you got the temps. If it's leased, whats their off season work? Spreading inputs? Chopping stalks?

Any neighboring land to the tillable that's not? Too rocky, too wet........ Those spots can be real deer magnets. They are in the 450 acre spot my brother in law lets me hunt. Not sure why he hasnt made it AG land. He has sprayed there once or twice over the years though. Make it improved fallow, plant wheat or rye when the wet season calms down.

Also, in mid west states, sometimes the best hunting spot is near water. Is access to water an issue for your herd. A old friend of mine moved to kansas for work. Hard trouble getting deer to his spot. AG all around him. He added a water spot near his treestand. Day and night dfference in his early season bow hunts. Later parts of the season is better too. Fills up a few drums in his truck and keeps a 110 gallon tub
 
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MY borther in law plants over 4000 acres. He hires pilots to plant winter rye into standing soybeans. No till period.... No cultipacker. He does it about 2 to 3 weeks before harvest.

He does broadcast with the sprayer tractor, but uses aircraft when he cant get there with the tractors. He does crops almost 300 miles from his farm.

Dont take much to make a good stand of rye. Broadcasting seed at the right time can do a great job.

Surface broadcasting WR into standing beans is a tried and true method of no-till. It is generally best to broadcast when the beans begin to yellow. The falling leaves act as a mulch holding in moisture. If I was only planting WR, I probably won't even take the time to cultipack. Of course, a mix benefits both deer and soils better. Some seeds in my mix do better when cultipacked. Of course, if you are planting beans for the pods, you can't cutipack. In my area, deer ignore the pods unless we have a mast crop failure, but our turkeys use them regularly. I've stopped planting beans in recent years.
 
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