AU Buck IV Chestnut - Transferred from QDMA Forums

[yoderjac]

Does anyone here know of a source to purchase this chestnut tree?
The Wildlife Group doesn't have any, and the only way they sell them when they are available is in a package including the other AU varieties.
I'm only interested in AU Buck IV.
Thanks - Steve

"Quote"
Auburn's Office of Technology Transfer, which serves as the link between Auburn researchers and the commercial marketplace, has licensed the patented cultivars to The Wildlife Group
Full article
http://ocm.auburn.edu/featured_story/chestnut.html

Quote:
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Originally Posted by Green Thumb
"Quote"
Auburn's Office of Technology Transfer, which serves as the link between Auburn researchers and the commercial marketplace, has licensed the patented cultivars to The Wildlife Group
Full article
http://ocm.auburn.edu/featured_story/chestnut.html
==================================
Thanks....I do recall reading that once but didn't know if others had been licensed or not. It's a shame these aren't readily available, because in speaking to someone at the WG, I understand there is a long waiting list for the package.

I have looked as well...

You need to call WG and order them now for next year if you want them. I bought two of the packages this year and I know they sold out quick. I ordered two of the larger tree packages last year in early summer, gave them the old CC and let them know I would not be able to pick them up until late January and I still got boned. After driving an hour+to the nursery I found out they had sold the larger trees I had ordered and I got stuck with the smaller trees. At about $33/tree I was very definitely unimpressed with some of them. Out of the 12 trees several were barely 18" high and some of the grafts looked rough. Time will tell how they do. On a positive note the tubes, ties and stakes that came with the packages are superb and my other purchases from them have been satisfactory.

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Originally Posted by BradBB
You need to call WG and order them now for next year if you want them. I bought two of the packages this year and I know they sold out quick. I ordered two of the larger tree packages last year in early summer, gave them the old CC and let them know I would not be able to pick them up until late January and I still got boned. After driving an hour+to the nursery I found out they had sold the larger trees I had ordered and I got stuck with the smaller trees. At about $33/tree I was very definitely unimpressed with some of them. Out of the 12 trees several were barely 18" high and some of the grafts looked rough. Time will tell how they do. On a positive note the tubes, ties and stakes that came with the packages are superb and my other purchases from them have been satisfactory.
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Thanks, I have bought other products from them in the past and have been satisfied with the quality. The entire AU package is not that interesting to me because of the price. However, if someone wanted to plant a very limited number of trees and wanted to assure the longest possible drop times, it might just be worth it. AU IV drops until about mid November (going from memory, so don't hold me to that). That is very desirable IMHO and something I have not been able to find elsewhere.
Take Care - Steve

I agree.... I wish they sold them separate from the packages.

I agree that the Buck IV and its November drop was attractive to me, but I also liked the fact that with the package I will hopefully have months of drop and something for my turkeys with the Gobbler. I figure they are only offering them as a package as a marketing tool to help recoup development costs. From this post alone its obvious they would be selling lots of Buck IV and not much else. Plus, in a few years I will have scions and can expand as I like with little cost.

Thanks guys. Maybe someday someone will find a wild one in a fence row that has the attributes we are looking for and market it.
Lots of the more famous apple varieties have been propagated from such finds.

I too would be interested in these but not as part of a package deal. I think BradBB has it right. Many of us are planting Dunstans. Perhaps Brad can keep us in mind when he has enough scions to share in a year or two. (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)

Found this on the wildlife group facebook page where they are comparing their Chestnut production vs Dunstans. Thoughts?
Has anybody bought some of the wildlife group chestnut trees/packages?

I have seen the same thing. The Dunstan is an orchard type tree, larger nicer looking fruit. However the CC has a smaller but more abundant fruit. I do not care about timber so I plant a lot more CC over Dunstans. I have both, but price and amount of fruit for wildlife are the reasons I plant mostly CC's.
The first I read about it was on Realtree's own website. I could not understand why they were bragging about having fewer but larger chestnuts over the Chinese.

Split Toe,
The WG is misleading in its facebook page analysis. The direct quote from the Chestnuthillnursery.com website is as follows:
"We planted 62 Dunstan Chestnuts in 2000, along with 800 Collosal, Marigoule and Maraval chestnuts at our farm in northern Connecticut. We are surrounded by American chestnuts in the nearby forests, both dead trees and suckers resprouting from the roots, so there is a lot o f blight. All 800 of the other chestnuts have died, but we have not lost a single Dunstan Chestnut. This year (2010) we harvested 400 lbs of nuts from the 62 Dunstan trees. They produce beautiful, mostly large nuts."
The orchard is only 10 years old, not 15. Also note that the growers are from CT. My perception is that they are very protective of the deer herd, to say the least. It also says nothing about the protection provided to the orchard.
Second, on the website is this following quote:
"VERY PROFITABLE ORCHARD CROP
Chestnuts are a very profitable crop. They bear in 3-5 years, and produce 2,000-4,000 lbs/acre each year at maturity (15-20 years). Wholesale prices for large, high quality chestnuts are $3.00-5.00/lb, and higher for retail. This is a superior return to pecans, hazelnuts and many other tree crops!"
Quite a different comparison than what the WG group selectively chose to analyze.
Here is the site for the quotes: <http://www.chestnuthilltreefarm.com/...nut-Trees.aspx
Prior to them going out of business (for some unknown reason to me), the Delmarvelous Chestnut company sold out all of their Dunstan chestnuts, as do Chestnut Ridge of Pike County, and another grower in NC. And I don't think we are talking 400 lbs for 62 trees either......
Food, or shall I say, Chestnuts For Thought......

 

[yoderjac]

Have any of you guys actually purchased an AU Buck IV?
Also, when I looked on-line at the Wildlife Group, I couldn't even find the pricing and list of what was in the package along with the AU Buck IV. Does anyone have that info?
Thanks,
Jack

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Originally Posted by yoderj@cox.net
Have any of you guys actually purchased an AU Buck IV?
Also, when I looked on-line at the Wildlife Group, I couldn't even find the pricing and list of what was in the package along with the AU Buck IV. Does anyone have that info?
Thanks,
Jack
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I talked to them today, they said that prices would not be set for a few more months.

I think we all need to start taking a harder look at these &quot;new&quot; offerings!
Really, how much better is the Dunstan over some of the Chinese varities when it is used for wildlife. Do these &quot;new&quot; chestnuts really have a drop rate into mid November? Sometimes I think we want something bad enough we just believe it.

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Originally Posted by fldbred
I think we all need to start taking a harder look at these &quot;new&quot; offerings!
Really, how much better is the Dunstan over some of the Chinese varities when it is used for wildlife. Do these &quot;new&quot; chestnuts really have a drop rate into mid November? Sometimes I think we want something bad enough we just believe it.
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I agree that Dunstan chestnuts have been overhyped. Personally, I wouldn't pay the premium of $25 per tree that they command from many sellers. They do have a lot going for them. I do like the fact that they are a cross with American chestnuts and many take more of the American form. When you start with nuts, the cost difference is near zero.
The AU Buck IV was developed at Auburn University with significant testing. Auburn is saying that they drop in Nov, not just the marketers at the Wildlife Group. That is a pretty big reputation for a university to risk just to license a patent. If a November drop was oversell, I would expect the university to avoid the topic and only the WG marketers to be making the claim. <http://ocm.auburn.edu/featured_story/chestnut.html
To my way of thinking, having a November drop is a distinct advantage, but a few high cost trees is not going to cut it. However, the reason I'm interested is because I've planted several hundred Dunstan chestnuts. Buying a few trees, even if I have to buy a package deal, may be worth it for a source of scions. I'm just guessing that these would have graft compatibility with Dunstans.
Thanks,
Jack

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Originally Posted by yoderj@cox.net
I agree that Dunstan chestnuts have been overhyped. Personally, I wouldn't pay the premium of $25 per tree that they command from many sellers. They do have a lot going for them. I do like the fact that they are a cross with American chestnuts and many take more of the American form. When you start with nuts, the cost difference is near zero.
The AU Buck IV was developed at Auburn University with significant testing. Auburn is saying that they drop in Nov, not just the marketers at the Wildlife Group. That is a pretty big reputation for a university to risk just to license a patent. If a November drop was oversell, I would expect the university to avoid the topic and only the WG marketers to be making the claim. <http://ocm.auburn.edu/featured_story/chestnut.html
To my way of thinking, having a November drop is a distinct advantage, but a few high cost trees is not going to cut it. However, the reason I'm interested is because I've planted several hundred Dunstan chestnuts. Buying a few trees, even if I have to buy a package deal, may be worth it for a source of scions. I'm just guessing that these would have graft compatibility with Dunstans.
Thanks,
Jack
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My thoughts exactly, Auburn is not going to put their reputation on the line just to sale some trees.

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Originally Posted by split toe
My thoughts exactly, Auburn is not going to put their reputation on the line just to sale some trees.
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Just too keep that in balance, I'm sure the wildlife group will hyperbolize things just as others have done with Dunstans. Fldbred has a valid point as to how quickly we often respond to marketing, especially when it is done in the form of &quot;hunting articles&quot; in magazines and &quot;hunting shows&quot; on TV.
I see those a great vehicles for smart consumers to get great ideas, but you need to follow that up with some good research. Let's take Dunstan Chestnuts as an example. If you read or watched some of the hype, you could easily walk away with the impression that you could spend a few hundred dollars, plant a handful of trees, produce nuts in 2 years, have deer come running, and have significantly benefited the local herd.
In reality, Dunstans are a great tree. Some of the articles caused me to start digging. The thing I quickly realized is that to have any impact beyond attracting deer to a specific location at a specific time of year, you needed volume that was cost prohibitive for most folks using the available marketing model of buying trees and planting them. This is also true for Chinese chestnuts and other crosses. While they may be a little less expensive because they are in the shadow of the Dunstan hype, high volumes are still expensive.
That led me to exploring starting Dunstan Chestnuts from seed indoors under lights. This too was not inexpensive, but the cost largely went to a setup that can be used for many years with a wide variety of trees. Most of the effort is focused during the cabin fever time of year which is great because once the weather breaks, my time is precious.
So far, I've put about 320 trees in the ground across 2 years. I plan to do this at least one more year. I don't yet know what my survival rates will be yet. I also have realistic expectations. Given our poor soils, I'm not expecting these trees to be a significant factor for 5-7 years.
Marketing, puffing, hype, and oversell are just that. For reputable companies anyway, they are generally based on a kernel of truth.
In this case, I fully believe that at Auburn, these trees are dropping in November. Will that change when we plant them in other zones? Will I be able to successfully graft them to my Dunstan chestnuts as rootstock? The jury is still out on those questions...
Thanks,
Jack

I am excited about the whole package. I want variety and diversity on my farm. However I cannot justify spending a lot of money on a tree package sight unseen. I am definitely interested in having each variety in the package but I'll have to wait awhile and see how things play out and what the cost is. I'm sure there will be lots of info in this forum about the package. Around here the Dunstan Chestnut was kind of unheard of. In the last two years, it has become available at many farm and home stores nearby. I have paid the full price of 30 dollars plus tax which I think is a little too much. I try to wait until they get marked down and actually bought some for 6 dollars a tree about a month ago. It has already been said here that the cheapest way to go is to grow from seed and I agree and have done so. OK, I'll stop rambling on but my last point is, I am glad that a major university is doing research on chestnuts geared toward wildlife. I just hope that they are offered at a reasonable price.

 

[yoderjac]

Well folks...I just puckered up and ordered a package. I spoke with Alan at the Wildlife group to place the order. They will be shipping in November. They are selling a package of 6 tress (different varieties that includes the AU Buck IV). I told him I would buy the package but was specifically interested in the AU buck IV with the later drop. Alan said that depending on their inventory at shipping time he may be able to include another AU Buck IV if they are running low in inventory on any of the other trees in the package and need to substitute.
I'll report back when I receive the package and let everyone know what I think.
Thanks,
Jack

What cost did they decide on for the package?

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Originally Posted by CuivreDog
What cost did they decide on for the package?
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Sorry, I meant to include that in the post. $200.00

It sure would be nice having a chestnut dropping in November. Would trees in more northern climates drop earlier or later I wonder ? Would a tree have to be grafted to have that late dropping characteristics?
I bet you can't wait to get them in the ground! We're going to want constant updates! (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)

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Originally Posted by yoderj@cox.net
Well folks...I just puckered up and ordered a package. I spoke with Alan at the Wildlife group to place the order. They will be shipping in November. They are selling a package of 6 tress (different varieties that includes the AU Buck IV). I told him I would buy the package but was specifically interested in the AU buck IV with the later drop. Alan said that depending on their inventory at shipping time he may be able to include another AU Buck IV if they are running low in inventory on any of the other trees in the package and need to substitute.
I'll report back when I receive the package and let everyone know what I think.
Thanks,
Jack
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Now if you get two of those IVs, I'm calling the Better Business Bureau...LOL...Just kidding.(INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)
I can't think of a better person to try the package. You will give quality updates so that we all will get the straight scoop.
BTW - I finally got my first chestnut off of the grafted cultivar (Eaton River) that I planted a couple of years ago. Not a late dropper but a timber type know for its excellent DR and culinary qualities.
This one was for me instead of the deer.

Native Hunter, nice pic! It is great to see results!
As for drop times, the web site says they start dropping around Oct 10th lasting &quot;well into November&quot;. They don't talk about if or how zone might impact drop time.
These are pretty pricey, but it is a one time cost and I'll have access to the plant material if I can get them to grow.

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Originally Posted by yoderj@cox.net
Native Hunter, nice pic! It is great to see results!
As for drop times, the web site says they start dropping around Oct 10th lasting &quot;well into November&quot;. They don't talk about if or how zone might impact drop time.
These are pretty pricey, but it is a one time cost and I'll have access to the plant material if I can get them to grow.
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Yes, and even though we are primarily interested in the late chestnut, it will also be nice to have the other end of the scale - an earlier chestnut. Add to that the staggered drop times, and I think it will be really a nice purchase. I like eating chestnuts as much as deer, and a long harvest time has a lot of appeal.
Good Luck!

good to hear! glad you decided to do it.

Jack,
With this 6 tree package, you get how many different varieties?
As they project it - the drop range is when to when?
Wayne

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Originally Posted by wbpdeer
Jack,
With this 6 tree package, you get how many different varieties?
As they project it - the drop range is when to when?
Wayne
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Alan did tell me the trees in the package. I think it might have been 3 different sawtooth and AU II, III, and IV or something like that. I didn't ask about the drop times of the package because I wasn't really interested.
My focus was on the AU IV. I'm on a pine farm. We have a few stands of nice white oaks in our riparian buffers. We used to have about 20 acres of mixed low quality hardwoods, mostly scarlet oak some pin oak, and a lot of chestnut oak (not swamp chestnut oak that deer love, but chestnut oak that deer won't eat unless there is nothing else available). We clear-cut that 20 acres for bedding and early succession.
Other properties in the area have oaks. In poor mast crop years, we have deer coming out our ears, but in good mast crop years, deer move to adjoining properties where white oak acorns are more plentiful and get shot.
I started with Dunstan chestnuts. I have a couple hundred in the ground now and plan to add another hundred or so next spring. So, I will have the early end covered pretty well when these start dropping. I'm much more interested in Oct into Nov.
By the time our gun season starts, there is so much hunting pressure in our area that food no longer plays a role in the daytime.
Thanks,
Jack

Jack,
If the Buck IV really takes off and does good I could see some grafting in your future!
Matt

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Originally Posted by mattpatt
Jack,
If the Buck IV really takes off and does good I could see some grafting in your future!
Matt
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I don't plan to wait to find out. I won't plant the AU Buck IV out in the field for deer. I'll plant it in more ideal conditions where I can maintain it. It will be my scion source. I'm growing Dunstans from seed and planting them at a pretty low cost. I'm fairly sure I'll be able to graft them.
Thanks,
Jack

Someone reminded me this is a patented variety, so it looks like I'll have to figure out how to pay royalties if I want to graft them or wait for the patent to expire.

On the other hand, the chestnuts are fair game. If you got room, plant the III and IV away from any other chestnut and let them pollinate each other. You can legally do whatever you want with the nuts.
If you want more information, the patents on each can be found on google.
AU Buck IV patent - <https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=p.../USPP20624.pdf
AU Buck III patent - <https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=p.../USPP20381.pdf

 

[yoderjac]

Good point as well! I actually looked at the patent back when I was checking them out. I believe AU licensed it to the Wildlife Group exclusively. I don't know if the wildlife Group will let you graft for personal use by paying a small royalty or not.
It will certainly take longer to go the seed route and it is a bit of a gamble but you are right that one would likely get some late droppers that way. And grafting from open pollinated seed grown trees once you get a good one is clearly legit.
When they contact me to say the package is ready to ship, I'll chat with them to see if they will accept a small royalty payment for non-commercial personal use grafting.
Thanks,
Jack

My understanding is that you can graft all you want for your own use. You cannot graft and sell it as the AU IV. Stark's does this all the time with patented apples. They simply change the name to one of their own choosing. The same is true with Dunstan's.

While not legal, you probably would not get in trouble grafting it for your own non-commercial use. Depends on the agreement they have with Auburn but likely you would need to license it from the school rather than the Wildlife Group.
Stark sells trademarked trees under different names. They cannot sell patented varieties without licensing and paying royalties.
My understanding of the Dunstans is that is really a brand name used to market trees produced from seeds. While there may have been a patent at one time, it would have expired by now. Their trees are grown from seed so they could not be covered by a plant patent.

Well I broke down and bought the package, I guess we will see how they do in Arkansas.

I heard back from the Wildlife group about my package today. They were very accommodating. I told Alan the trees I was most interested in and they adjusted accordingly. I will receive:
2 AU Buck III Chestnut
2 AU Buck IV Chestnut
2 AU Gobbler II Chestnuts
5 SunflexTubes
5 Tree Stakes
They asked when I wanted to receive them in November and we settled on shipping on Nov 17th.
Here is what else I found out:
They were seed grafted to Chinese Chestnut rootstock last December in Jiffy Magnum pellets and moved to 5&quot; roottrapper bags in May after the grafts took. Alan said they haven't grown a ton but the grafts look good and they are feel pretty good about them holding.
The next thing I needed to figure out is what to do with them when I receive them. I've decided I want to overwinter these trees at home and grow them in a larger rootbuilder pot for another summer. I ask both Alan and Dr. Whitcomb about this and got different opinions.
Alan suggested his first choice would be to directly field plant them when I receive them. Unfortunately, this is right in the middle of the rut. My best planting time is in January or February after our season is over. Trees are still dormant and I have more time for field work.
Alan suggest that if I planned to overwinter them I should transplant them to a larger container as soon as I receive them. He also suggested that I should watch out for suckers the first couple seasons and remove them.
I ask the same question about transplant timing of Dr. Whitcomb and whether I should use the 3 gal rootbuilder containers or the more expensive and larger High 5s.
Here was Dr. Whitcomb's reply:
<i>
Greetings,
The amount of root growth between now and next spring would be modest, so little root loss in that way. I suggest you wait until you have had sufficient cold to cause the leaves to drop, then space the trees in the 5 inch bags snugly together and mulch heavily around the sides and across the tops, but be sure to leave the stems exposed. Then next spring pot them up into the three gallons. You can shift from the 5 in bags to the 3 gallons even before you are frost free since the root mass in the bag will be in the interior of the 3 gallon and have that new mix for insulation.. The important thing is to make the shift from the 5 in to the 3 gallon before bud swell as it is just at and shortly after bud swell that you get maximum root production on a temperate zone species like chestnut. And, if you are going to grow the trees for several months and then plant in the field next summer, there is no advantage of the 5 gallon over the three gallons.
Oh, yes, and it would likely be wise to surround the trees in the 5 in bags with one inch chicken wire to keep rabbits away.
with best wishes, Carl Whitcomb</i>
I plan to follow Dr. Whitcomb's approach, but I thought I'd post both recommendations for the benefit of others who might want to overwinter their trees.
Thanks,
Jack

Good luck with the package. I got two packages last year and out of the 12 trees ended up with 3 dead that never broke bud. The graft areas looked sketchy from the start and I am gonna talk to them about that when I order this year. The growth has varied greatly and the surviving trees range from some that are already outside the tree tubes to some that are not even 1 foot tall. They were all planted identically, as instructed, and were irrigated. I am gonna try one more order this year even though I am not real excited about how they have done. I was not able to pick mine up until very late in the year and frankly believe I ended up with the years left overs.Even though I told them I would be late picking them up they had already sold all the large packages which is what I ordered. This year I will make sure I pick them up early and hopefully get better trees because I like the concept.

 

[yoderjac]

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Originally Posted by BradBB
Good luck with the package. I got two packages last year and out of the 12 trees ended up with 3 dead that never broke bud. The graft areas looked sketchy from the start and I am gonna talk to them about that when I order this year. The growth has varied greatly and the surviving trees range from some that are already outside the tree tubes to some that are not even 1 foot tall. They were all planted identically, as instructed, and were irrigated. I am gonna try one more order this year even though I am not real excited about how they have done. I was not able to pick mine up until very late in the year and frankly believe I ended up with the years left overs.Even though I told them I would be late picking them up they had already sold all the large packages which is what I ordered. This year I will make sure I pick them up early and hopefully get better trees because I like the concept.
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Brad,
Sorry to hear they didn't work out for you last year. This will be my first buy from the WildlifeGroup. I will say they you may be on to something with the &quot;late&quot; purchase. The first year I purchased bare root Jujube tree from a nursery in Florida, I made the buy a the tail end of the season. I got 3 trees that seemed small but since I never bought them before I didn't know any better. One of them was cracked at the root and died. They offered to replace it but by then it was too late for me to plant it so I asked them to replace it when I ordered more the following year. The second year I ordered early. I got 3 more trees plus the replacement tree. All were much larger than the first three. Even planted a year later, they are now significantly outgrowing the original tree. I now believe the last minute order resulted in me getting runts.
Thanks,
Jack

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Originally Posted by yoderj@cox.net
Brad,
Sorry to hear they didn't work out for you last year. This will be my first buy from the WildlifeGroup. I will say they you may be on to something with the &quot;late&quot; purchase. The first year I purchased bare root Jujube tree from a nursery in Florida, I made the buy a the tail end of the season. I got 3 trees that seemed small but since I never bought them before I didn't know any better. One of them was cracked at the root and died. They offered to replace it but by then it was too late for me to plant it so I asked them to replace it when I ordered more the following year. The second year I ordered early. I got 3 more trees plus the replacement tree. All were much larger than the first three. Even planted a year later, they are now significantly outgrowing the original tree. I now believe the last minute order resulted in me getting runts.
Thanks,
Jack
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Jack,
I've been reading a lot about grafting chestnuts. Seems they are pretty picky when it comes to rootstock and scion compatibility. Have you done research into this?

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Originally Posted by mattpatt
Jack,
I've been reading a lot about grafting chestnuts. Seems they are pretty picky when it comes to rootstock and scion compatibility. Have you done research into this?
==================================
No. I've done some reading as well. I think I posted the link earlier to green grafting chestnuts. It certainly may take some time to find the right combination.
Thanks,
Jack

Jack
I spoke with Allen a couple wks ago and he stated he is willing to sell the AU buck IV trees individually for $30/tree. He described the trees as 2' tall grafted seedlings.
Did you ever hear back from him in reference to grafting these for your own personal use?
I have a wal mart bought 3 gal dunstan that I planted last Nov. I believe it is prolly a 3rd leaf tree. It produced 5 pods this yr. I was at the farm yesterday and went to check on them and they have no signs of ripening. They are green as can be! I dont know how fast they can go from green to ripe???? Maybe you do? But I suspect it will be the end of Oct before these chestnuts fall to the ground. If thats the case I wonder if it will be the same yr to yr? If so it seems like I have a late drop dunstan that I could use for grafting. WOuld love to hear your thoughts on this

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Originally Posted by jselsor
Jack
I spoke with Allen a couple wks ago and he stated he is willing to sell the AU buck IV trees individually for $30/tree. He described the trees as 2' tall grafted seedlings.
Did you ever hear back from him in reference to grafting these for your own personal use?
I have a wal mart bought 3 gal dunstan that I planted last Nov. I believe it is prolly a 3rd leaf tree. It produced 5 pods this yr. I was at the farm yesterday and went to check on them and they have no signs of ripening. They are green as can be! I dont know how fast they can go from green to ripe???? Maybe you do? But I suspect it will be the end of Oct before these chestnuts fall to the ground. If thats the case I wonder if it will be the same yr to yr? If so it seems like I have a late drop dunstan that I could use for grafting. WOuld love to hear your thoughts on this
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Jselsor,
Actually, I haven't yet ask the question about grafting them. I'm probably several years out from deciding if that is the route I want to take. As you see from the previous post, chestnuts do seem to be finicky about rootstock/scion compatibility. I still have some digging and thinking to do before I decide if using them as a grafting scion source is the route I want to go.
My Dunstans are not old enough to pod yet, so I can't answer your question about that from personal experience. It would not surprise me that a immature tree may not drop at the same time it does when it is mature. It is using a fairly high percentage of resources and energy to grow compared to producing offspring. Massey or others who have older trees may want to weigh in on this from first hand experience.
Thanks,
Jack

Jack,
Some good reading....
http://journal.ashspublications.org/.../1127.full.pdf
Matt

Just saw where The Wildlife Group posted a video on their facebook page that showed the AU Buck IV chesnut still holding some chestnuts. Did anyone else purchase any of these this year?

I ordered a package of AU Chestnuts as well as way to many other trees yesterday. Talked to Allan about my dead trees in last years order and he is making it right.

I received my shipment of AU buck chestnuts from the wildlife group. Overall I think everything came out pretty good. Not overly impressed with the tubes, they are much more flexible compared to the ones I have from nativ nursery.
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[yoderjac]

I received my trees from the Wildlife Group tonight. The trees themselves were nice trees and about what I expected. The packing and shipping was poor. When they arrived, much of the mix had spilled from some of the roottrapper bags through the package. One of the branches was broken off one of the AU Buck IVs. It was a tree that had forked and I would have pruned that branch anyway. I ended up cleaning it up with pruning shears and put a little wood glue on it to seal it. I'm sure the trees were put under a lot of stress with this transport. We got an unusual cold spell this week when they were in transit. A lot of roots were exposed to freezing temperature with the mix removed from the bags. I'm sure this will not be enough to kill the trees.
I originally planned to mulch these in for the winter and worry about transplanting them to larger containers in the spring. However I decided to go ahead and do the transplant now due to the state of the trees.
Here they are. Left two right, 2 AU Buck IVs, 2 AU Buck IIIs, 1 AU Gobbler

After I took the picture, I watered them well and will let them drain inside tonight. Tomorrow I will put them in the attached garage. I don't think they will need much with the new mix surrounding the root system in the larger container.
Thanks,
Jack

Jack.....are you going to hold these at home all summer?
I assume a regular chinese or dunstan would pollinate the Buck IV?
I am seriously thinking about getting a couple to start the process of later drops and hopefully grafts!

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by CAS_HNTR
Jack.....are you going to hold these at home all summer?
I assume a regular chinese or dunstan would pollinate the Buck IV?
I am seriously thinking about getting a couple to start the process of later drops and hopefully grafts!
==================================
Yes, I plan to grow them on my deck this summer.
I've be experimenting with grafting chestnuts without success so far. I've tried nut grafting and inverted radicle grafting. I've only tried a half dozen or so and I've be messing with techniques. I don't know if the failures are related to my poor application of the techniques or to and incompatibility between the Dunstan scions I used with the Chinese chestnuts.
Separate from the AU Buck IV issue where we have the patent to deal with, I'm sure there will be lots of variation between drop times of the trees I've planted since they were all started from nuts. I'll want to take advantage of all the drop times and other characteristics of individual trees by grafting.
So far, I have not found a technique that I'm happy with. Of course much of this could be do to my inexperience. If you looked at my Jujube and Persimmon thread, you will see that I tried a lot of bench grafting of dormant persimmons this winter. My success rate seems to be pretty low. I tried about 25 seedlings. I was grafting Nikita's Gift which is a hybrid VxK to Virginiana rootstock. About 10 of the 25 were of the recommended diameter (about pencil diameter) the rest were too small. I used W&amp;T on the properly sized seedlings and wedge on the small ones. It is still too early to tell what the success rate will be, but I'd say I've got only 3 that I have high confidence will succeed and maybe 2 more that I have moderate confidence in. The rest have either failed or it is still too early to tell but they are not looking encouraging.
I understand that chestnuts are even harder to graft traditionally so I've got more work to do.
Thanks,
Jack

Quote:
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Originally Posted by yoderj@cox.net
Yes, I plan to grow them on my deck this summer.
I've be experimenting with grafting chestnuts without success so far. I've tried nut grafting and inverted radicle grafting. I've only tried a half dozen or so and I've be messing with techniques. I don't know if the failures are related to my poor application of the techniques or to and incompatibility between the Dunstan scions I used with the Chinese chestnuts.
Separate from the AU Buck IV issue where we have the patent to deal with, I'm sure there will be lots of variation between drop times of the trees I've planted since they were all started from nuts. I'll want to take advantage of all the drop times and other characteristics of individual trees by grafting.
So far, I have not found a technique that I'm happy with. Of course much of this could be do to my inexperience. If you looked at my Jujube and Persimmon thread, you will see that I tried a lot of bench grafting of dormant persimmons this winter. My success rate seems to be pretty low. I tried about 25 seedlings. I was grafting Nikita's Gift which is a hybrid VxK to Virginiana rootstock. About 10 of the 25 were of the recommended diameter (about pencil diameter) the rest were too small. I used W&amp;T on the properly sized seedlings and wedge on the small ones. It is still too early to tell what the success rate will be, but I'd say I've got only 3 that I have high confidence will succeed and maybe 2 more that I have moderate confidence in. The rest have either failed or it is still too early to tell but they are not looking encouraging.
I understand that chestnuts are even harder to graft traditionally so I've got more work to do.
Thanks,
Jack
==================================
Are you planning on moving them to 3 gal containters eventually? I would think the smaller 1 gal will be too small by the end of summer.
I haven't read too much about grafting and the specific patent, but if push comes to shove and I cannot get it done....I will try and grow from nuts I guess.
Any thoughts on the pollination??
Craig

If we were to grow AU varieties from nuts, does this also infringe on any patents? Are there nuts available for the different AU varieties?

Quote:
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Originally Posted by MN_Chestnut
If we were to grow AU varieties from nuts, does this also infringe on any patents? Are there nuts available for the different AU varieties?
==================================
I really dont know......you would have to get a copy of the patent and read it.
I dont think ANY nuts are available for sale....only the grafted trees from a source or two. They are closely guarded now as alot of time and $ went into the patent/development.

patent isnt clear on future progation rights - unless im not seeing it: <http://www.freepatentsonline.com/PP20624.pdf

Quote:
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Originally Posted by MN_Chestnut
If we were to grow AU varieties from nuts, does this also infringe on any patents? Are there nuts available for the different AU varieties?
==================================
Even if you could get the nuts, the offspring tree has no guarantee of being just like its parents. Certainly, the chances of a late drop time should be higher in an offspring of such, but not a sure bet.
If a guy planted a large number of nuts and nursed them to maturity he would likely have a great chance of getting some late droppers. Who knows, you might even get one later dropping than IV........ Then you could patent it and be the one selling a whole new cultivar.

 

[yoderjac]

Quote:
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Originally Posted by Native Hunter
Even if you could get the nuts, the offspring tree has no guarantee of being just like its parents. Certainly, the chances of a late drop time should be higher in an offspring of such, but not a sure bet.
If a guy planted a large number of nuts and nursed them to maturity he would likely have a great chance of getting some late droppers. Who knows, you might even get one later dropping than IV........ Then you could patent it and be the one selling a whole new cultivar.
==================================
I thought about this after stating I would grow them......duh....they are grafted! I keep forgetting that!

Quote:
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Originally Posted by CAS_HNTR
I thought about this after stating I would grow them......duh....they are grafted! I keep forgetting that!
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LOL, true, but I still like your idea. If you grow a new winner, I will be your chestnut marketing manager.(INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by CAS_HNTR
Are you planning on moving them to 3 gal containters eventually? I would think the smaller 1 gal will be too small by the end of summer.
I haven't read too much about grafting and the specific patent, but if push comes to shove and I cannot get it done....I will try and grow from nuts I guess.
Any thoughts on the pollination??
Craig
==================================
If you scroll up a couple posts you will see that I transplanted them to 3 gal RB2s as soon as I received them. Much of the mix had fallen out of the bags during transport. I also planned to overwinter them in my unheated garage and I figured that since roots don't grow much over winter, the mix surrounding the roots in the 3 gal container would be sufficient insulation.
As for pollination, since chestnuts are wind pollenated, I presume if you plant them together with no other chestnuts nearby you can pretty much count on the pollenating each other. You could always bag flowers and try pollinating them yourself.
As for the patent, I have not looked into that yet. Others may have more information. All I know is that they licensed it to the Wildlife Group. Plant patents are generally for a specific cultivar and only clonal propagation is covered. Growing trees from nuts generally does not infringe on the patent. As others have said, you probably have a higher likelihood of late dropping trees from nuts from AU Buck IV than from other trees but any individual tree could have that characteristic.
Thanks,
Jack

 

[yoderjac]

Just thought I'd update this thread with a picture of one of my AU Buck IVs:

Seems to be doing very well in the 3 gal RB II.
Thanks,
Jack

It looks great Jack. I waited a week too late to get mine ordered this spring. They had quit shipping the week before I called.
I'm still going to put out about 4 of them at some point. I'm glad I didn't get any last fall, because our severe winter really hurt the chestnut seedlings I put out last year. Some died to the ground, but most are coming back from the roots. The mature trees were unaffected.

Thanks for the update. Can't wait to see when these trees start to drop, but I guess we have a few years yet. (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)

Nice looking tree there. Great picture

My AU chestnuts are doing good also.

I've been keeping an eye on my AU buck III and IV trees. When I checked today one of the AU buck III husks was completely open and empty. I looked around and saw no nuts on the deck. At first I though perhaps I squirrel had gotten them. I noticed the AU Bucks IVs were split and the nuts showing. I extracted those nuts. I was concerned about losing nuts, so I decided to open one of the other AU Buck III husks that was about the same size as the open one. When I did, I found non-viable nuts. I then looked closer on the deck and found a non-viable nut that must have come from the open husk.
Based on the size of the remaining husks, I'm now convinced the rest of the husks will not have viable nuts. The husks with viable nuts were significantly larger.
It looks like I'll end up with these three AU buck IV nuts:

Thanks,
Jack

Hey---3 is better than zero! That is 3 future trees for you.

Good update Jack. I'm watching my regular Chinese trees closer this year for drop times. One tree is standing out as being a little later than the rest. I picked up nuts from it this week and several burs were just beginning to open. If this holds true from year to year I think the tree could drop into late October when fully mature. It is only about 10 feet tall now and just had a dozen or so burs this time.

Quote:
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Originally Posted by Native Hunter
Good update Jack. I'm watching my regular Chinese trees closer this year for drop times. One tree is standing out as being a little later than the rest. I picked up nuts from it this week and several burs were just beginning to open. If this holds true from year to year I think the tree could drop into late October when fully mature. It is only about 10 feet tall now and just had a dozen or so burs this time.
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I'm hoping to do something similar with my Dunstans. As they begin to produce nuts in the field, I'll watch for drop times. Since these are nut grown, there will be some variability. When I find trees dropping later, I'll collect nuts from those trees as well as scions and do some nut grafting. This should produce an exact duplicate.
This winter I hope to continue to practice nut grafting with my Dunstans. I'll take scions from my existing trees and use them to nut graft to Dunstan nuts even though I won't know anything about the parent tree. This will just be to perfect my technique.
Thanks,
Jack

Quote:
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Originally Posted by dogdoc
Hey---3 is better than zero! That is 3 future trees for you.
==================================
Since chestnuts grow so fast from seed. I'm wondering if it would be worth overwintering these and keeping them on my deck for another season. I'm sure they would become root bound sometime next year, but that would tend to encourage fruiting. That would give me one more year of nuts.
Thanks,
Jack

My package I got last winter from TWG have done well. 2/5 have grown out of the top of the 5ft tree tubes in one growing season! I will probably purchase a few more this fall.
I just looked at the chestnut package from TWG this year and noticed that it is a Buck III and Buck IV with two chinese chestnuts. They don't mention the AU gobbler's that they were selling last year.

I brought my AU Buck chestnuts in from the cold room a couple weeks ago on and put them under lights to give them an early start. Looks like they are about to leaf out. Might be hard to see unless you look close:

Thanks,
Jack

Are you cutting all the branches off? Sorry...might be a stupid question (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED).

Quote:
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Originally Posted by HB_Hunter
Are you cutting all the branches off? Sorry...might be a stupid question (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED).
==================================
Yes. I need to tube them to protect them in my area. The tubes I'm using are the slip-over rather than the wrap-around style. So, I pruned them when they were fully dormant to a single central leader. This will allow me to slide the tubes over them when I plant them in the field.
Thanks,
Jack

Sad update on my AU chestnuts. It appears all of my chestnut package has died except the AU gobblers. The AU bucks have not leafed out yet and I have growth coming from the roots that are leafed out. This would have been their second leaf I believe.

Quote:
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Originally Posted by split toe
Sad update on my AU chestnuts. It appears all of my chestnut package has died except the AU gobblers. The AU bucks have not leafed out yet and I have growth coming from the roots that are leafed out. This would have been their second leaf I believe.
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Hate to hear that. Did you have them in pots or planted out. We bought two of them last fall and they've both leafed out, but man they're tiny. It's odd that the graft would fail being their 2nd leaf. Wonder if that's a common problem?

Quote:
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Originally Posted by Merle Hawggard
Hate to hear that. Did you have them in pots or planted out. We bought two of them last fall and they've both leafed out, but man they're tiny. It's odd that the graft would fail being their 2nd leaf. Wonder if that's a common problem?
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They were planted out.

 

[yoderjac]

END OF TRANSFER FROM QDMA FORUM

 

[yoderjac]

The first year I had the AU Bucks on my deck they produced chestnuts. Since chestnuts can't fertilize the same variety and only the AU Buck III and IV were mature enough to reproduce, I presume the nuts were a cross between them. We don't have any mature chestnuts near the house. Unfortunately, I screwed up last winter and the AU Buck chestnuts got mixed up with the Dunstan chestnuts I bought from Chestnut Ridge of Pike County. So, I don't know if any germinated, grew, and were planted this fall or not.

I decided to keep the AU Buck III and IV on my deck again last summer to see if I could get more nuts (before squirrels and other critter get them). This year, both the AU Buck III and IV trees produced nuts, presumably crossing with each other. I was able to collect some nuts and put them in cold stratification on 10/20 and then some more on 10/31. I'm not sure if it will matter which tree is the female contributor, but I did label the nuts based on the female parent this year.

I decided to plant the nuts collected on 10/20 today with about 75 days of cold stratification. They had zero mold issue but I did have a couple floaters. While I presume these will be duds, on occasion I have had a floater germinate. Since these nuts are few and far between for me, I decided to plant them all regardless of floaters. This will make my germination rate artificially low compared to Dunstans since I always discard those floaters. I planted 7 where AU Buck III was the female parent (they were all smaller nuts) and two where AU Buck IV was the female parent. Those two were larger nuts. I still have a few that were collected on 10/31 but I'm going to let them cold stratify for a couple more weeks.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[H20fwler]

Another great thread with a lot of good info!
I can't get enough of reading up on chestnuts, I don't know how I missed this thread first time around.

Thanks Jack.

 

[yoderjac]

Another great thread with a lot of good info!
I can't get enough of reading up on chestnuts, I don't know how I missed this thread first time around.

Thanks Jack.

No problem. There is more info on the AU Buck chestnuts on this thread where T asked for an update: http://www.habitat-talk.com/index.php?threads/au-buck-iv-updates-anyone.6429/

Thanks,

Jack

 

[yoderjac]

The AU Buck III x IV (and vise versa) are starting to produce top growth in the last couple days. So far, I have 3 nuts, all with an AU Buck III mother, showing initial top growth.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[yoderjac]

Updated Picture Links.

 

[ansayre]

Jack,

I would like to add some chestnuts to my property. Can you recap what has done well/not so well from the WG plantings? Do you know where I could get some Buck IV seeds?

Thanks,

Alan

 

[b116757]

I’m not sure Jack is still on the site I haven’t seen him for a while. I have some of the Wildlife group seedling AU Buck trees planted last year very nice air pruned trees from WildLife group. I also ordered just the Chinese Chestnut package from them nice trees also, not air pruned like the AU Buck but good quality trees. Maybe someone will come along with older trees that can get you some nuts.