Apples vs crabapples?

[KY wild]

I was reading recently and the guy was saying he prefers apple trees over crabapples or apple crabs because the apple tree, all things being equal, would produce more volume or more poundage than the other two. I always assumed this not to be true, I assumed if a apple crab fruit was half the size of an apple fruit then that apple crab would produce twice as much fruit and the volume or mass would be about the same. So for an example a crabapple would produce 800 apples to equal a bushel and regular apple would produce 150 apples to make a bushel in a given year. What do you guys think?

 

[Native Hunter]

I think for wildlife it’s a moot point. If one tree isn’t producing the needed amount of fruit add more trees. I also think that most popular apples, crabapples and apple crabs produce significant enough crops or they wouldn’t be popular to begin with.

What really matters is a drop time that works for you, disease resistance, zone compatibility, and a rootstock that doesn’t let your tree fall over. If you have these things, you have what you need.

 

[TenPoint]

I do it for less maintenance, keeping in mind all of the things Native listed as well. So far so good on the less maintenance part. I’ve hardly touched my crabs.

 

[KY wild]

I understand that it is not significant factor for most of us but on the other hand it could be deciding factor in certain situations. It may not have a definitive answer but it may be true that regular apple trees create more pounds of apples than crabs. If someone could only plant 4 trees and in one planting choices would drop 400 pounds and the other drop 200 pounds seems like a factor to consider along with everything else.

 

[homerj]

I don't think it's debatable. In a producing year, an apple on standard rootstock will clearly bear more lbs of fruit than will a crab on the same rootstock.

 

[gunfun13]

I don't think it's debatable. In a producing year, an apple on standard rootstock will clearly bear more lbs of fruit than will a crab on the same rootstock.

I think it is debatable lol. Likely very dependent on variety of crab or apple as we know there can be a lot of variation in productivity. Also level of care, as crabs are likely to maintain productivity under neglect.

My trees are relatively young, my first fruit tree planting in 2017. But at this point, 2 varieties of crab (30-06 and Droptine) are pumping out exponentially bigger fruit loads than any standard size apple I planted at the same time.

 

[homerj]

I think it is debatable lol. Likely very dependent on variety of crab or apple as we know there can be a lot of variation in productivity. Also level of care, as crabs are likely to maintain productivity under neglect.

My trees are relatively young, my first fruit tree planting in 2017. But at this point, 2 varieties of crab (30-06 and Droptine) are pumping out exponentially bigger fruit loads than any standard size apple I planted at the same time.

When your standard sized apple and crabapple trees are 15 years old pick and weigh all the fruit. It won't be close.

The question wasn't which bears earlier, more consistently, or with less care.

I'd imagine in zones 6 and warmer, both apples and crabs would lose to pears and persimmons.

 

[TWalter91]

There is no doubt that an apple tree on standard rootstock will produce more tonnage. I have a mix of both planted. But the way I look at it is that I would rather have 30 crabapples fall in one day then 10 apples. I want more fruit on the ground even if it weighs a little less. Crabapples have a way longer/extended drop time. Which is the number one priority for me.

 

[cavey]

I think we are talking perfect worlds and times here.... if you had a vigorous, large apple, frost immune annual producer that dropped perfectly disease resistant high sugar content fruit for your UDSA zone around the time your in the stand that would not rot quickly on the ground I would go with an apple tree every time too - especially talking tonnage. But tonnage alone is not whats important and I have a lot of trees and so far none are perfect ... I have seen apples ignored one year and feasted on over others the next year and so on year to year for no apparent reason. The only trend I do see is sweeter apples tend to get hit more often once dropped. I wish all my trees were mature producers. I hope to live long enough to check and compare - sadly I just dont have the time to take notes. But I do know volume isnt the answer in itself.

Reality is "variety" is the spice of life as few if any trees meet that expectation year after year.... and 4 apple tree varieties coupled with environmental and human factors might not always get you what you want and I think you may find crabs might consistently come closer - chestnut crab kind of comes to mind.

The holy grail of apple trees has been a hot topic forever be it volume, draw or drop time ... kind of like the ford - chevy - dodge question. I think if you had all of them you could pick the one you like best at your leisure.

I would say appeal is key, drop time next and volume last.

I have a tiny crab, a wild find that I want to see produce as the ground around it was ripped up from deer trying to get each nibble in. The crabs were all pea sized if not smaller..... so small I had to name it "Tiny Tiny Timm" crab two tiny's and a Timm for the Timm farm I found it on. LOL it may be the prefect fruit because anything from birds to deer will eat it and it likely has the lowest tonnage ever for a fruit tree. Go small or go home!

 

[bwoods11]

I think it makes sense to have both . I’m not an expert (learning) but I try to have nice mix of apple & crabapple at each farm !

 

[H20fwler]

I thought I read once that it is good to have one crab for every 5-6 apples to help with pollinating?

I like crabs because they usually really put on the fruit and are way more annual bearing, also tend to have good DR. I’ve have some with pea size fruit some that are almost tennis ball sized.
All the fruit ends up being used by nature, it’s hard to go wrong with crabs.

 

[bigboreblr]

I think crabapples put on more fruit than regular apples, in general here. 30-06 and droptine are 2 good ones.

MY thoughts. 1/4 of the trees provide food before hunting season, 1/2 of the trees produce fruit during hunting season, 1/4 provide late food. Make 1/2 of them crabapples, but still have some for humans too. Have a few early droppers, atleast one.

Meet in the middle.... trailman, chestnut, and kerr are crabapples people can eat.

Get one or two before hunting season apple planted close to the house / camp. You can harvest without bothering the hrd out back. trailman, redfree, or williams pride will likely be good n ripe well before labor day.

Far as size goes, crabapples are tough to compare. Many apples are in the general size range, but crabapples can vary even more. A 2.5 vs 3 inch apple is way different than a 1/2" vs 1" crabapple.

Another factor is bloom times. My crabapples are fully leafed out when most of my apples are just starting to pop out.

I have a round of wild crabapples I am looking at for a few years. Because you see a bad year deos not make it binennial. Could be frost damage. Also, how does a tree respond to drought stress? Some can fight better than others.

Really liking the 30-06 so far though, deosn't bloom as quickly as most crabpples do. Seems to be on par with enterprise so far, bloom group 4. Got way too much cedars around for droptine to be happy. I did spray copper twice on my CAR trees this year. Need the copper more for the peach trees with peach leaf curl.

 

[cavey]

MY thoughts. 1/4 of the trees provide food before hunting season, 1/2 of the trees produce fruit during hunting season, 1/4 provide late food. Make 1/2 of them crabapples, but still have some for humans too. Have a few early droppers, atleast one.

Meet in the middle.... trailman, chestnut, and kerr are crabapples people can eat.

I like your way of thinking, my goal is food sources 24/7/365 with apples and crabs helping from fall to late winter. What you said makes good sense - chestnut crab is one of my favorite to eat ... I have trailman and kerr in waiting for them to produce cant wait to try them.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I agree with H20fwler (post #11) on crabs. Our camp has a number of different ones, from 3/8" fruit to over 2". They seem to produce annually with good fruit loads, good DR / tolerance, and no fuss. No matter the fruit size, they all get eaten by deer, turkeys, grouse, and numerous varieties of "regular" birds. We have no pollination problems with any of our regular apple trees due to the number of crabs we have - some early bloomers, some mid & later season.

At our place, tonnage doesn't seem to matter so much, since we have a number of food plots and miles of oaks dropping acorns. Deer & other critters have a variety of food choices, but the crabs produce without problems. Each apple & crab fills a time slot & need.

 

[rocksnstumps]

Agree with others that available times vs volume is bigger priority.

I find it's easier to find late hanging crabs that last well into mid to late winter then regular apples that can hang so long. During heavy snow years only late hanging fruit, corn, and browse are above the snow for easy use. Sure they can paw thru the snow but after a couple feet they give that up.

Earlier in the season much more stuff is available. Deer around my area seem to key into bean fields until that gets buried.

 

[bigboreblr]

If you randomly pick a tree from the store, crabs will very likely win out. Alot of dwarfs in big hox stores. Even online is like that too. Crabs about never in b9 m7 or other smalker sizes.

I got the top 2 or 3 crabs from several places. Whitetail crabs 30-06 n crossbow, midwest deer courthouse n buckman, bluehill i have turning point, saint lawrence violis and winter wildlife.

 

[sandbur]

Interesting discussion. Climate, soil quality, soil pH, rootstock under the tree are things to consider and far beyond what most of us can comprehend. There are lots of variables in location and weather/ climate.

I have watched deer take a chestnut crab in their mouth and chew it up. Even 6 month old fawns do this. I find larger apples under other trees with bites taken out of them.

I favor applecrabs in my location.

 

[bigboreblr]

One downside to crabapples is knowledge. Some crabapples are well known and have quite a history. whether it being ornamental or some good human edible ones. However, there are places that have localy found crabpples. They have worked well where they are. However, usda zone range, disease resistance, chill hours, and rootstock compatibility are somewhat unknown. Some places have fireblight more, or have certain insects another tree is more resistant to. Chill hours can be effected by local soil conditions too.

My home is NY by a river in zone 5/6 is very middle ground for any kind of apple tree. However at camp I need a tree that is slow to wake up in the spring and can handle -35 deg + weather. El nino patterns, you might have a tree looking good for 5 years and the area acts somewhat mild like some warmer zones. Then get one year with a bad cold snap, or a year without much snow and the tree wakes up early.

Someone buys a tree and it gets replant issues and doesn't put on good growth, or someone has trouble putting it on a particular roostock and a crabapple gets a bad rap.

Some well known varieties are defined by hundreds or farmers experiences. Crabapples however probably have more no-spray knowledge base than commercial orchards would know.

Tread carefully with crabapples if they aren't from your general area, or an area similar to yours.

Roadside Crabapples in your local area, nothing wrong with copying them. But, its good to have a few years experience before propogating them to a large extent. Biennialism, cold and drought tolerance, relative bloom times. All this takes atleast 5 years to get a good picture. I'm still looking for a golden goose among the abandoned ugly ducklings. Very likely most crabapples varieties offered for sale have atleast 10-15 years experience with them. A few years to find a winner, then a few years more to prove it at the finder's grafted tree.

You can have a great place for wildlife without a single apple or crabapple tree. Some places do need some special offerings around abundant AG or other food like oaks tees everywhere. Without the benefit of having apple for the hunter to eat, I wouldn't put nearly as much effort in fruit trees than I do.

 

[sandbur]

One downside to crabapples is knowledge. Some crabapples are well known and have quite a history. whether it being ornamental or some good human edible ones. However, there are places that have localy found crabpples. They have worked well where they are. However, usda zone range, disease resistance, chill hours, and rootstock compatibility are somewhat unknown. Some places have fireblight more, or have certain insects another tree is more resistant to. Chill hours can be effected by local soil conditions too.

My home is NY by a river in zone 5/6 is very middle ground for any kind of apple tree. However at camp I need a tree that is slow to wake up in the spring and can handle -35 deg + weather. El nino patterns, you might have a tree looking good for 5 years and the area acts somewhat mild like some warmer zones. Then get one year with a bad cold snap, or a year without much snow and the tree wakes up early.

Someone buys a tree and it gets replant issues and doesn't put on good growth, or someone has trouble putting it on a particular roostock and a crabapple gets a bad rap.

Some well known varieties are defined by hundreds or farmers experiences. Crabapples however probably have more no-spray knowledge base than commercial orchards would know.

Tread carefully with crabapples if they aren't from your general area, or an area similar to yours.

Roadside Crabapples in your local area, nothing wrong with copying them. But, its good to have a few years experience before propogating them to a large extent. Biennialism, cold and drought tolerance, relative bloom times. All this takes atleast 5 years to get a good picture. I'm still looking for a golden goose among the abandoned ugly ducklings. Very likely most crabapples varieties offered for sale have atleast 10-15 years experience with them. A few years to find a winner, then a few years more to prove it at the finder's grafted tree.

You can have a great place for wildlife without a single apple or crabapple tree. Some places do need some special offerings around abundant AG or other food like oaks tees everywhere. Without the benefit of having apple for the hunter to eat, I wouldn't put nearly as much effort in fruit trees than I do.

I think wild crabs found locally are a good choice. I should specify apple crabs that you have watched for a few years. They should be about as low maintenance, no spray as you can get.

Good advice!

Deer did well for hundreds of years without apples.

Producing every other year doesn’t bother me. With enough trees, some usually have a few apples.

In the north country, bad winters or late frosts can take out even the wild crabs. Then things start to swing towards every other year production.