apple tree help or??

[MRBB]

Ok I have this old apple tree in my drive way more or less, if it didn't always make SO many apples I would have cut it down yrs ago, but the tree normally produces tons of apples yr after yr and has for a good 30 yrs now?/

problem is, its in the way, but been living with it

last 5-6 yrs its developed a scab like dying section running up the tree and branching out of one of its main runs

so my question is, can this tree be saved
if I cut the one dying section off, will it help or , really not do any good?? and if I should cut it off , at what point would you suggest I cut it at?
I'd rather save it if possible, but MAN I wish it was in a different spot on the property at same time LOL


here's a few pictures
this is the worst yr I have had with it on production too, and the tree is a major tree for local bears, its scared up to no end, have seen 5 bears in it at once many times over the yrs?/
and a pic from last yr, can see ALL the apples it normally makes! crazy amounts normally, thus why I wish to save it!

 

[Turkey Creek]

Looks like it could have started as a frost crack. I would trim out the section that is mostly dead back to the first junction of good living tissue. The dead wood will get progressively more dead and be attacked by bugs and rot, which will just spread into living tissue. Nice tree, but I have said this before I could not live in bear country!

 

[MRBB]

thanks, is there any time of yr that is better to trim it off over another, or doesn't it matter??

as for living with bears
30+ yrs of having them here some times daily, and never had a single issue with them, minus a broken branch or two
have them on my deck all the time too, they lick up any bird seeds that land there

in the 30 yrs or so, I think MAYBE they got into my trash about 10 times

I like having them about, I think there super cool critters, they do a lot of silly crap HAHA!

and thanks for the advice!

 

[strawhead]

You have a great attitude regarding the bears. They are a comical animal. But, I don't like them around with trying to establish mast trees. I must not be doing something right.

 

[MRBB]

I am lucky as I have a ton of food all around me for them to eat, have about a 100 acres of food plots on the lands behind me (hunting club lands)
then not far past them is a lot of AG planted crops
have about 30-40 fruit tree's here about half are wild, old farmstead that went under about 40+ yrs ago
and they just make apples, with NO care what's so ever
must be some awesome tree genetic's
as there just in the woods like growing and make apples yr after yr with no help
one's closest to me I do ad some fertilizer and spray, but I swear, the others near them do just as wel with nothing done to them

LOTS of bears here every yr too, and some HUGE One's, got some pic's of one I know is over 600 lbs(got its state ear tag info)
and then had one bigger show up no tag
I average about 16 different one's here a yr that I can ID apart from each other

its a great place to sit on the deck and get to see critters, I get bears and deer, foxes and what nots all at the same time here all the time too!
I guess after so many yrs of co existing, they don't pay much attention to each other??, truth be told, if anything, the deer make the bears nervous, and not the other way! go figure!
as I said, lots of food to go around, so they don't seem to be protective of food sources and a lot of living space, a good 10,000 + acres here of forested lands/swamps and likes to live in
all my neighbors are all very tolerable of all the wildlife, only 36 homes in the whole town, and most either are members of the hunting club or hunters
its a nice set up here, wish I owned more land here, my only draw back!

 

[Bowsnbucks]

MRBB - Where are you located - state ?? Just wondering because of your large bear population. Bears are not so harmless where my camp is. Damage incorporated.

 

[MRBB]

I'm in NE PA
I basically explain bears this way
IMO there are a few different types of BLACK bears
I call them rural bears
wilderness bears
and then that go back and forth between human contact and none at all
I have what I call rural bears,
many many generations of living and being raised in close contact with humans on a weekly if not daily basis

these bears typically have adapted better to humans, than humans have to them
rural bears here in PA< have a proven record for being the fattest/heaviest black bears in the world on average
and its due to such a wide range of rather easy food to them
they don't have to struggle to get calories as much as a wilderness bear or a pure woodland bear
thus there less likely to IMO break into places for food, for MOST black bears in PA< its added work they don't need,
YES it happens
and 90% of the time its folks running backyard bird feeders and the bear going after the bird seeds they store in there sheds or porches or??
Or digging into folks trash can's or dumpsters
bears live by there nose and if it smells good to them they will TRY to eat it
but again, here with more easy food/meals, they prefer to NOT work so hard to get food,lazy fat bears are in PA
99% of bear human contact here in PA< is very non dangerous and NON damaging contact
we get bears in major citys here rather often, from rural developments pushing them out of home ranges and well all them scents of city trash and food, will draw them at times
most get on TV and reported and many get darted and relocated for the BEARS safety, not really for the humans protection
I have helped tag and trap and relocate a bunch of bears over the yrs here, was friendly with one of the worlds,
if NOT the best bear biologist in the world
and learned a TON about bears


NOW when you get into more remote places and true wilderness area's
bears have LOT harder time to find food and get calories most times of the yr when there wake, yes some times there is an abundance, but more weeks out of there OUT time, there is slimmer pickings
which leads them to get more destructive about camps and or the likes, IF they can smell even residue of food, and there nose is about 10,000 times better than a top line bird dogs nose
grizzly bears have been claimed to smell a kill from up to 20 miles away?
SO< if you have food even in cans in your house/cabin
and you have a bear in a wilderness area
there is a MUCH higher odds of that bear causing issue's

they also have a LOT less human skills, due to they have so little contact with humans
naturally we HUMANS STINK , to almost all wild life
BUT hungry and an easy meal will make a animal do strange things at times

I always tell folks, the most dangerous bear in the woods is a starving one, it will do extremes to get food in it, and all the peppery spray or bullets will be needed to slow, or IF stop it!
next is a scared BEAR
don't laugh, MOST bears are scared of things a LOT smaller than it, humans inclused
at times I swear they have NO idea HOW big and strong they are

I have seen cats SMALL cats scare the crap out of 600+ lb bears, and had them running for dear life
NOW if said bear STOPS and stands its ground, GAME over on kitty cat! LOl
BUT a scared animal is unpredictable
AKA< when you startle a bear that DIDN"T know you were there, a prime way most attacks happen, all the more so if its a female with cubs, then your triggering a second reaction, to protect its young instinct

next dangerous bear is a injured one, being in pain give all things a short fuse I think
and a bear that is hurt will many times be more likely to stand its ground rather than flee, its NORMAL response to encounters


Now I have had about 25+ litters of cubs in my yard with mother bears, plus been about a LOT of other females with cubs
(even been in dens with them)
and have NEVER hjad a BAD encounter, or should I say an aggressive encounter where I was in danger,
99.9 $% of females will tree and send there cubs up tree first
many times they will stand at bottom of tree or go up after them
IF a tree is near by that is
if NOT<
next they run for dear life to get distance between you and the cubs and then they stop and face you if too wide open an area
at this point, they tend to give you CLUE"S of there state of actions
they will stomp the ground, they will HOOF at you and then they will click there teeth
the last being a warning you should heed , after that comes either a bluff or an all out charge

NOW if you get really close before a bear knows your there with cubs, all cards are off the table and ANYTHING can happen, but again, natural response ifs to get cubs away from what ever, and evaluate things from there

the true wild card in Mother bears with cubs IMO
is hormones
like all women(not bashing) having young changes a bodys chemical make up, and balance of hormones, they can be calm one second and nuts the next!
I've seen a few beat up and tear tree's out of the ground due to them making noises LOL
or attack non living things, going from being right next to?? to attacking it for NO reason them back to calm
HORMONES
I think that is something most folks DON"T think about when they talk bears with cubs

I again have a LOT of bear experience and knowledge, been big into bears since I was a kid and being dared to crawl into bear dens and take pic's of bears in them
from there I made an effort to learn REAL info of them and over the past 35+ yrs I have learned a TON
I find bears extremely interesting they like all things come in so many shapes and sizes and they all have there own personalities
as again I have some bears that have been visiting my yard here for 16+ yrs, you get to see and get to know them like a BIG Buck you follow, only with bears, many get to live a LOT longer, so the story of them, gets more interesting over time to me!

sorry on long read here, but I enjoy bears and telling of them
like all things, fear isn't what you should have of them,
its RESPECT, there just being what they are, and trying to live as all critters are! they just happen to be bigger than most things
and knowledge is power as in all things

 

[4wanderingeyes]

Bears around me are a nuisance. They take my garbage cans, knock my grill over, chewed the handles off of my cooler, wrecked 2 of my cameras. When I get pictures of a bear in the food plots, my deer pictures go from 75+ per day, to less then 10 deer pictures a day, and most of them at night. My apple trees havent started producing yet, but I am sure once they do, I will have the bears destroying them as well. They have also made me almost have to go back to camp and change my underwear once. I climbed into stand one morning in the dark. Right before it was getting light out, I heard noises of something climbing in the tree above me. I figured a coon, so I wasnt overly worried. Then once it got a little lighter out I saw two cubs in the tree above me. This got me worried, so I started scanning around, and found mommy about 20 yards away in a tree staring at me. I slowly climbed down. After that I always looked in the trees around me before climbing in my stand.

While I will agree, bears can be fun to watch, they are destructive. If I had the choice, I would live without them.

 

[MRBB]

well again a bear is just trying to live as are the other things
and again when I say if your getting damage from bears, its normally based on scent transfer
a bears nose is again so powerful it makes a deer seem like they cannot smell at all!

its that big a difference between bears and deer on scent

so when you handle food, or?? and touch things like coolers camera's
a bear is finding them by smell, and then when the smell isn't what an item is, they go by there sense of taste to ID things
thus why they will chew on things that are NOT food
the name of the game living in bear lands if you do all you can to prevent the damage

I run a LOT of trail cam's
since I started using scent free gloves when checking them, haven't had a cam damaged
prior to, I had a few get chewed on, got some cool pic's of inside a bears mouth LOl
bears are also super curious animals
couldn't tell you how many times I have had a bear climb a tree I was hunting out of to inspect me, many have licked my boot too ?
never felt in danger, as to me they just seemed curious
to others I am sure they could take it another way
as they say curiosity killed the cat more than once!
as many IMO can jump the gun on a bear real easy feeling in fear when there really wasn't any need to action

IMO you were VERY lucky with that bear encounter, the ONLY person killed by a bear in PA< was killed when they cilmbed a tree that had cubs up in it and moma bear came to get them down, and didn't end so well
But again, it also shows the fact all female bears with cubs are not attack crazy critters, or odds are you wouldn;t be here to tell of it!

but if you live in a bears area, sadly its you that need to adapt to them, only fair, odds are they were there before you, is how I view things
we get a ton of folks that move to this area from the city(NY, NJ)< and then complain all the time about bears and deer eating he things they plant
and way I see it , is the bear/deer wildlife should have to move due to you moved there

co existing can be done and done well, if you make the effort, in the BIG picture, all will benefit
having lots of wildlife where you live is a priceless thing to have, and so few actually do, and many pay large amounts of $$ to have it
far too easy to see the glass half empty, rather than half full if you follow!!

I'd rather deal with bears and critters than high crime and traffic any day of the yr LOL
country living is just more for me I guess!

 

[MRBB]

Back to the tree question
IS there a BEST/better time of yr to cut the bad section off, , as in maybe winter when its more dormant, or does it NOT matter?

 

[greyphase]

I'd wait for late winter.

Another type of bear I'd add to your list is the juvenile delinquent bear.
These are smaller bears who break branches off apple trees and don't eat the apples. Their just doing it because their unruly teenagers. :mad:
I usually have one or two trees damaged each year by these bears. I'm in southcentral Pa. Our bear population is swelling along with coyote, bobcat, and fishers. I'd like to return to the 60's when these animals were unheard of here and we were overrun with small game instead. :cool:

 

[MRBB]

all young critters can be a handful
I get way more damage by deer and raccoons than any bears

as for returning to the 60's
I'd love to have the small game we once had again too
I blame the game commission, not the bears
was THERE JOB to protect game
any loss of it, is THERE fault 100% if you ask me
yet they never say crap about making mistakes
they blamed the farmers then chemicals and blah blah

and we all know there are no farms out in ND/SD, and yet they magically have lots of small game yet?
PA was for those that don't know a top 5 pheasant state at one time, and NOW
ONLY wild pheasants here are once they relocate from out west to here!
Wood Cock/rabbits/ Grouse
I haven't shot one isn't so long its a shame, and I the few I do see, I won't shoot, as I don't want to be the one who killed them off LOL
I'm, glad we have a game dept, but as far as I am concerned, I am NOT impressed with the dept we have or HOW they do things
been useless to me more times than not sadly!

 

[4wanderingeyes]

MRBB, I know I was lucky. I never had a fear of bears, and honestly, I still dont. I respect them, and when we encounter each other in the woods, I would have to say we respect each other. I have never had a bear charge me, usually when they see me, they take off running. Except when I am sitting in my deer stand, they like to mess with me a bit. Back when baiting was legal in my area, I would see bear more days then not when deer hunting. They dont spook easily either. You can toss stuff at them, yell at them, they dont leave. Now that baiting isnt allowed, I dont see them nearly as much in person, and when I do, they are just walking through, rather then hanging out eating my bait pile. I still get pictures of them several times a week, but encounters are rare now. As for my grill, and garbage, I know in the springs, and late falls they are looking for food, and it comes with the territory. I can coexist with the bears. Wolves on the other hand, I am not a fan of. Every few years there will be a cougar sighting in the area, I have never saw one in person, nor do I care too. I have seen big cat tracks on my land, and one other time I was hunting raccoon with dogs, and we heard one give us his warning cry, it worked, the dogs and myself got out of there quick!

I am new to apple trees, but I have been planting some the last 4 years or so, I have always read to cut off the dead stuff when it is dormant.

 

[MRBB]

Thanks, I will wait till winter then to cut the tree back some, and hope save it, its a heck of a tree, makes SO many apples its crazy some yrs
I have seen wild cats in the wilds before, I think there another awesome creature, natures killing machines there, but there like bears I bet, 90% of the time your near one, you just never know it, they sense you LONG before you get to see them and they hide or sneak away never knowing how close you were to one
if they wanted to eat us hunters, we'd all be in trouble I think HAHA!
they just have better skill sets than we do for hunting if you ask me!

and yes you put food/bait out and a bear finds it, 9 or 10 times that bear will stick about till its all gone, have seen some bears eat 50-60 lbs of corn in one evening before
and when there on FOOD< unless your bigger than they are, its NOT always easy to get them off it
they live by there stomachs, , easy food is seldom turned down or walked away from, and odds are unless your looking like your planning to eat that food on the bear, it could care less about you!,
but again this is many times based on HOW used to humans or NOT they are!

 

[H20fwler]

You could always get some scions off it and graft them to good rootstock to make sure it lives on if the main tree dies.
Being such a good producer you could do a lot with a few more just like it.

 

[MRBB]

thanks, I have thought about that, but honestly I don't have any room for any more tree's
I honestly keep debating cutting down a bunch so I can turn around with trailers easier, but just cannot bring myself to kill a good tree??
so, ? NO more tree's here right now, and this one is in the worst possible spot too, if it didn't produce so well, it would have been down a LONG time ago HAHA!
thought about digging it out with a big excavator and transplanting it a few times too, but scared that would just kill it!

SO< I'll trim it, if it saves it, it stays, if it gets a lot worse or stops making apples, its fire wood for buddy's smoker! LOL