Alfalfa seeding rate in a mix

[Stubborn1VT]

I respect the experience of others on this site, so I'm looking for your thoughts on putting together a fall mix. I use tillage every 3 years or so to rotate crops in the strips in my plot. I want to plant a clover/alfalfa/chicory strip using rye and maybe oats for a nurse crop. I wouldn't be against including a small amount of brassicas.

What would you recommend for a seed rate and mix? The strip is currently grassy, but it also has red and alsike clover, trefoil, plantain, queen anne's lace and asters. The ground can be damp, but not wet, in the spring. It's the driest ground in the plot. pH is 7. NPK are all decent.

I would like to leave this for another 3-4 years if possible.

 

[jsasker007]

I broadcast seed in my plots so I usually go about double the rate to allow for issues. Also I try to do about 3 to 1 ratio with clover and chicory being heavy on the chicory because the clover will eventually take over but going with less clover to start you get a few more years before that happens. jmo

 

[omicron1792]

Alfalfa is picky. Haven’t had much luck with it in a mix.

 

[Stubborn1VT]

The farm I used to work for always included it in a mix, but it wouldn't persist more than a year or two. I'm not sure how much they focused on pH though.

 

[Hoytvectrix]

I have played around quite a bit with alfalfa/chicory/clover rates and planting method and timing. I am still a fan of this mixture but I would just make sure your site isn't too wet. If it is, you will mostly get clover, and then you will eventually get grasses to move in. Being too dry isn't really much of an issue because the alfalfa and chicory tend to be very drought tolerant. The mixture works well because sometimes you have wetter parts of a field or you might have a drier year than others.

For our soils in Northern MO, this is the best seeding rate:
40% alfalfa
40% chicory
20% white clover

Specifically, 40% VNS alfalfa, 40% Oasis chicory, 5% VNS Ladino clover, 5% Med red clover at 9 lbs/acre drilled is the default perennial plot mix.

I also tried a 70/20/10 mix but with 70% Flex Pro alfalfa, 20% chicory, 10% alsike clover for one site that was a little wetter (this was just drilled in this spring and is too early to tell).

I would be weary of including too much clover in the mix. You can always cheaply overseed it to fill in bare areas after the fact.

 

[bigboreblr]

alfalfa does not like competition. If desired, I would hit it hard with like 15lbs acre.

I'd still put some lime in if your pH is 7, especially if doing tillage.

Same experiences here, not alot of luck with alfalfa living long.

Before I boght a solo 421, I had trouble getting a good even spread of small seeds like clover. I'd have to mix with the larger seed before that.

 

[matinc]

Bigbore check out this clover dewault seeder. SD uses a cut out tank on a leaf blower for another idea.

 

[matinc]

Per SD advice I will be planting a blend of 5 seeds, 15 pounds per acre each 20% ysc medium red chickory Alfalfa and balsana this year along with tritacle at 4 bushel per acre.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Our camp planted a mix of Persist red clover and Supreme 2020 alfalfa from Welter's a few years ago that lasted for a good 3 years before the alfalfa started to get thin. It was on our highest, gently sloping field in full sun. Good soil drainage. We went with about a 50/50 ratio - - which I'd now change to 2/3 alfalfa to 1/3 red clover. jsasker007 and Hoytvectrix above pointed out that eventually the alfalfa will be overtaken by the clover, and/or grass. That alfalfa & red clover mix was the best deer magnet we ever planted. Cam pics with 10 nice bucks in it feeding about every evening. We did not have chicory in that mix.

Hoytvectrix also pointed out that alfalfa does fine on drier ground, which we found out first-hand at camp. Our alfalfa didn't do as well on wetter ground, which we found out in a subsequent planting in a different, lower field. FWIW. Good luck with your mixed plot.

 

[Wild Thing]

I planted alfalfa/clover mix in 2020 using the same alfalfa that @Bowsnbucks did - Supreme 2020 from Welters. I planted at the rate of 16#/Acre alfalfa and 4#/Acre clovers. The clovers actually started crowding out the alfalfa so in the future I think I will only include 2#/acre clover if I add any clover at all. I also planted oats for a nurse crop but probably would not even do that in the future.

I didn't include any chicory as I spray once per year with 2,4-DB (and clethodim) and I am sure that would nuke the chicory. What are you guys using to spray with when you add chicory to the mix?





Here is a link to the thread I posted on the Michigan Sportsman Forum - Lots of photos of the alfalfa progress on pages 2-3...

Planted some Alfalfa...

Finally decided to try planting some alfalfa for a little more diversity in my forage offerings. I don't have any haying equipment so I am really hoping that the deer help me out by keeping the alfalfa mowed down. If not, I hope, at least that I will be able to keep it mowed without smothering...

www.michigan-sportsman.com

 

[omicron1792]

You can use 2-4db at 1 pint/acre rate. Imox or imazethapyr at 4oz/acre also fine.

 

[omicron1792]

Also good to see you stranger!

 

[Wild Thing]

Also good to see you stranger!

And you as well

 

[Wild Thing]

You can use 2-4db at 1 pint/acre rate. Imox or imazethapyr at 4oz/acre also fine.

I normally use 2,4-DB at 1 Qt/Acre and 1 Pint Cleth/Acre in my perennial clover/alfalfa plots. I was afraid that it would nuke any Chicory if I added that to the mix.

You think I can spray that over Chicory if I tone it down to 1 Pt/Acre 2,4-DB?

 

[Foggy47]

I normally use 2,4-DB at 1 Qt/Acre and 1 Pint Cleth/Acre in my perennial clover/alfalfa plots. I was afraid that it would nuke any Chicory if I added that to the mix.

You think I can spray that over Chicory if I tone it down to 1 Pt/Acre 2,4-DB?

I'm gonna be more careful with advice from you and Omi.....grin. I applied some Simazine a few days before drilling my switch and got ZERO gernination out of my switch this year. Nadda....zip...point zero....nothing. Gotta beleive its that Simazine just before I planted. Check the message (PM) I sent to both of you guys. No offense intended...but I feel certain the Simazine was bad advice (?). You guys are still tops in my wheel house.....none of us know what we don't know. All good....just gotta rub it in. (who know's....maybe I am wrong....but at this point....I do not think I am). Peace

From what I have learned....the new varieties of RC Switch do not handle Simazine at all. Don't feel bad....I don't thing Roger Sampson (RC owner) or John Komp know this intel either. Too bad they did not do the research before offering their advice.....IMO. Not happy right now with advice I received from allot of people. As I one told a customs inspector: "Don't piss me off....I ain't pretty when I am mad". Grin

 

[omicron1792]

I still think it will come up fine with time.

Also remember I said I thought the new varieties were marketing hype.

If anything you might have buried too deep.

Lots of others have planted just like you and if did great. Either it will still come up of something wonky happened we haven’t figured it out yet.

 

[omicron1792]

I normally use 2,4-DB at 1 Qt/Acre and 1 Pint Cleth/Acre in my perennial clover/alfalfa plots. I was afraid that it would nuke any Chicory if I added that to the mix.

You think I can spray that over Chicory if I tone it down to 1 Pt/Acre 2,4-DB?

Correct. And hold the ams.

 

[Wild Thing]

I'm gonna be more careful with advice from you and Omi.....grin. I applied some Simazine a few days before drilling my switch and got ZERO gernination out of my switch this year. Nadda....zip...point zero....nothing. Gotta beleive its that Simazine just before I planted. Check the message (PM) I sent to both of you guys. No offense intended...but I feel certain the Simazine was bad advice (?). You guys are still tops in my wheel house.....none of us know what we don't know. All good....just gotta rub it in. (who know's....maybe I am wrong....but at this point....I do not think I am). Peace

From what I have learned....the new varieties of RC Switch do not handle Simazine at all. Don't feel bad....I don't thing Roger Sampson (RC owner) or John Komp know this intel either. Too bad they did not do the research before offering their advice.....IMO. Not happy right now with advice I received from allot of people. As I one told a customs inspector: "Don't piss me off....I ain't pretty when I am mad". Grin

Sorry for the delay in answering Foggy - Great to hear from you!

It wasn't the Simazine, I am pretty sure of that. Agree with Omicron that it may come up yet. I have heard of many others who seemed to have a long delay between planting and germination. I did not have that issue. I have always used Simazine as a pre-emergent with my switch plantings and they have all come up very soon after planting.

Here is a link to a thread I posted on the Michigan Sportsman Forum when I first planted SG in 2018. It gives a timeline of the pre-plant spray schedule I used - including 2 Qt/Acre Simazine:

https://www.michigan-sportsman.com/threads/switchgrass-at-23-days.618781/post-6810166

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I'll add my appreciation to seeing you back on, Wild Thing. I learned some good pointers from you in the past, that we put to good use at camp.

You stated in post #10 that you'd reduce the red clover to 2#/acre with alfalfa - if you added any at all. A question for you - and any of the others on this thread - how long does a pure alfalfa stand last if fertilized properly & sprayed for weeds & grass? We never planted a pure alfalfa stand at camp, so I/we have no clue. Would a pure stand make sense for deer?

 

[Wild Thing]

I'll add my appreciation to seeing you back on, Wild Thing. I learned some good pointers from you in the past, that we put to good use at camp.

You stated in post #10 that you'd reduce the red clover to 2#/acre with alfalfa - if you added any at all. A question for you - and any of the others on this thread - how long does a pure alfalfa stand last if fertilized properly & sprayed for weeds & grass? We never planted a pure alfalfa stand at camp, so I/we have no clue. Would a pure stand make sense for deer?

Thanks for the kind words BnB.

My alfalfa stands were still going strong after 3 years and I am pretty sure they would have gone strong for another 3 years but I terminated them to rotate into something’s else. I should probably say I “tried” to terminate the alfalfa/clover because, try as I may, I still have remnants of both in those plots. It is difficult to terminate for sure.