Ahhhh cereal rye

[Bowsnbucks]

Thanks, gentlemen, for your responses to my ? at post #26 above about a crimper. I guess we'll use a roller or cultipacker instead. We have those.

Not being an AG guy (neither are our camp members), I learn from you gents on here. Some past tips posted on here have been used at camp with good results, so we're grateful. Broadcasting seed into rye - then rolling it down is a great one.

 

[SD51555]

To clarify, if I let it sit all summer is it dropping 500 lbs of viable seed into that same plot, or does that not seem to occur? The benefit of the summer buckwheat is if terminated in a timely manner I know exactly what seed I’m putting in the ground July - Sept.

If you let it go to maturity, you're gonna have 2500-7500 lbs of seed (did not say viable) per acre.

I don't think that's all bad. I don't think crimpers are bad. All these ideas have been bolting on the wings going down the runway kind of research. We don't have the benefit of anyone doing research for plotters, only guys adapting farming knowledge to plotting. So all of us here have to keep tinkering and sharing our wins, and more importantly, our failures. You guys remember the ATV flail mower?

Anyway, I can see a whole nother way to manage winter cereals in these low-input style plots on the horizon. Many guys before have tried to spread brassicas into rye and press it flat (no mowing). The results have been sketchy and varied at best. It's likely the tiny seeds don't have enough fuel to reach up through 6" of duff to hit sunlight to keep going. I've wondered if radishes might do better simply because they are a larger seed and can carry more carbs to run pre-sunlight.

I rolled down one mature crop so far. I had oats fly right up through that duff no problem, and it was an immense duff layer. I think there's a management advantage to be had from growing awnless winter wheat (credit to Catscratch) or awnless winter triticale and rolling it flat without mowing. I did not see any germination of my rolled flat triticale, but it doesn't mean it didn't happen either. I think there's a benefit in rolling down awnless seed heads in that it keeps the seed heads on top of the thatch, and they are available for consumption until the next crop overtakes them.

Might not be a big deal, it might be a huge deal. My deer don't get them eaten before it's time to press and go with fall seeding. They eventually eat them because I've seen it on my misses.

It'd sure put pounds on the critters if they knew there were tons/acre of high carb seeds laying there to eat. I'm putting in a couple new plots this year, and I'll get to try this out and see by September of next year if I can put extra grazing days on my new ground.

 

[SD51555]

An interesting learn @S.T.Fanatic shared with us last year was his experience running a crimper over chicory. It took out his chicory. Granted, this is what a crimper was designed to do, but a new management consideration for us. When I rolled mine with my Brillion packer, it did not kill my chicory.

I even tried to hit it a second time perpendicular to the first pass to mimic the crimper, and thankfully, it failed. My chicory pushed right back up and stayed huge into fall. Now I've got half knocked over skeletons of 7' tall chicory all over my plot. That's ok. I'm glad I failed to be more effective.

This year, It's only one pass and I'm done.

 

[Foggy47]

I've normally terminated my rye at some point in July.....partly to get the mulch cover for my clover and prep for re-seeding each late Aug. But where I did leave some rye stand and go to seed.....I didn't think it got "overly" thick the following year. I am uncertain why that is.....but that is my experience.

 

[matinc]

I am wondering actually how much rye actually reseeds itself the next year. I don't believe if you crimped without adding new seed it would be that thick because I don't believe the seed contact with the ground is as high as those broadcasted and then the duff is added on top. Imo

 

[omicron1792]

I am wondering actually how much rye actually reseeds itself the next year. I don't believe if you crimped without adding new seed it would be that thick because I don't believe the seed contact with the ground is as high as those broadcasted and then the duff is added on top. Imo

When you crimp properly you kill the plant before the seed is viable, so you don’t get reseeding.

Crimping is different than rolling in the fact it breaks the plants stem in several places killing the plant.

 

[Westwind]

This is a plot that had a bumper crop of rye last year. It was cut with a combine but a lot of seed spilled due to the huge volume of stalks and heads. I planted wheat last winter to just have something different than the neighbors. It’s kinda hard to see but the rye is a lot higher than the wheat…. I might leave this until fall. Don’t know if my farmer will want to run the combine through it or not.

Like Foggy said above, the deer just love the tall rye.

 

[Westwind]

Maybe a better pic. Standing rye and clover on the far right, flattened rye in the middle- flattened it with seeder. Wheat with volunteer rye on left.

I ran the seeder down a strip of that wheat and because it is pretty far behind the rye maturity wise it stood right back up except where the tractor tires were.

 

[Foggy47]

I think our camp should invest in a roller-crimper. What is a good brand (not prone to problems), and price for a good used one? We don't need a brand-new one for the amount it would be used. We don't have the open acreages some of you gents have.

Either the Goliath or the I&J models are pretty popular. Check the I&J site for a variety of sizes and models. The do offer a UTV model and other small crimpers. They are amish built in PA.....and pretty well made with dealers around the country. There are a few other brands out there....and most are built to the Rodale specs....but some are strangely made and cheaper? Beware.

 

[Catscratch]

As of last night. Much of the rye is taller than the bottom of the window of my truck. If I decide to not let it go I'll brushhog it high.

 

[Foggy47]

View attachment 77666

Maybe a better pic. Standing rye and clover on the far right, flattened rye in the middle- flattened it with seeder. Wheat with volunteer rye on left.

I ran the seeder down a strip of that wheat and because it is pretty far behind the rye maturity wise it stood right back up except where the tractor tires were.

"Standing back up" is what happened when I tried to terminate with a cultipacker. It's the worst implement to terminate rye. It simply does not push down and crimp or break enough stalks to get the job done. Maybe with a few passes you would get more done?....but don't count on it.

If you absolutely, positively want to terminate it before it goes to seed....crimping, mowing or glyphosate is what it will take. Keep in mind tho that after the seed is hardened and mature.....gly will not get it done....nor will mowing. Mowing will just disperse the live seeds. You must terminate before the seed hardens (in the dough stage.....which will last for a few weeks). In my neck of the woods....this timing is late July.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

^ ^ ^ ^ Mowing in the green "dough stage" will work then? To get a good brassica/clover plot - broadcast seed, then mow to get the mulch effect?

 

[Foggy47]

^ ^ ^ ^ Mowing in the green "dough stage" will work then? To get a good brassica/clover plot - broadcast seed, then mow to get the mulch effect?

You got it. Though you can terminate by mowing earlier too.

Gotta add…..that while flail mowing provides an even mulch…..that much will break down and not provide the beautifully even, long lasting mulch effects that crimping provides. Mowed rye straw breaks down much faster. Crimped rye straw is superior at weed suppression IMHO.

 

[omicron1792]

View attachment 77666

Maybe a better pic. Standing rye and clover on the far right, flattened rye in the middle- flattened it with seeder. Wheat with volunteer rye on left.

I ran the seeder down a strip of that wheat and because it is pretty far behind the rye maturity wise it stood right back up except where the tractor tires were.

That looks great West!

 

[matinc]

Omi I understand what your saying about crimping in the dough stage however my point above was crimping in the middle of August when the seed is already viable. I still do not believe viable rye that is crimped will germinate at near the rate as broadcasted rye and then existing rye is crimped on top of the seed.

 

[Foggy47]

Omi I understand what your saying about crimping in the dough stage however my point above was crimping in the middle of August when the seed is already viable. I still do not believe viable rye that is crimped will germinate at near the rate as broadcasted rye and then existing rye is crimped on top of the seed.

I'm not Omi....but why on earth would you think this? Where do you think Rye seed comes from? Many of us wait for new rye seed that is combined in August from fields like those shown. Same stuff....but maybe run through a cleaner....or not.

 

[matinc]

Foggy Please reread what I said on both posts to get a clue what I'm talking about.

 

[Foggy47]

Foggy Please reread what I said on both posts to get a clue what I'm talking about.

Nah....your juice is not worth the squeeze. grin. You have a reading compression problem. I think your the prolem with the clues.

 

[omicron1792]

Yeah @matinc. Why would you crimp after the dough phase? Just plant or plant and mow or plant and cultipack or just plant. Crimping would give you little benefit in your scenario.

Also others are showing rye left to mature often produces too much seed (if that’s possible) the next season.

 

[bigboreblr]

Mount some spray nozzles on the back of a cultipacker them mount a spreader on front of the bucket or atv. Then got got a serious foodplot rig. Lightly disc before if needed. Looks alot better at my heavy clay backyard plot.

Mix clover in with the rye when broadcasting.

I let nature grow whatever it wants, then run rye n clover mid august.

I add 20-25% oats as a nice treat to the wildlife. Almost every year comes up no till, just plain old feed whole oats.