2,4-DB and Additives
- Thread starter birdog
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bigboreblr
5 year old buck +
Any specific weeds your having problems with? Commericla farmers use AMS not as a fertilizer, but a water treatment. Get the pH in the 5's. Think calcuim carbonate in the water is a blocker for certain weeds. AMS releases the carbonate, effectively nuetalizing the ion block.
birdog
5 year old buck +
I'm just curious what if anything food plotters use. I actually use AMS Xtra to condition my well water when I use cleth, 2,4-db and gly. I was just wondering if anyone mixes anything with 2,4-db to make it more effective or if I am wasting my money adding AMS with 2,4-db.
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bigboreblr
5 year old buck +
The only time I had problems with my cheapie 15 gallon sprayer was using solid AMS pellets.
Hows your water over there, pretty hard?
Far as NY goes my water here isn't too hard. Used regular 41% gly, 2,4D, and clethodim many time without any AMS. Used gly without adding surfactant about every time too. Seems to work fine. Cleth I do use a good does of surfactant. Pretty much no choice there.
Far AMS goes in general, they say to use 17lbs per 100 gallons of 2-25 gallons per 100 of liquid. All reality, you can use much less. That formula is for severe water hardness issues. Many would be just fine with about half.
Hows your water over there, pretty hard?
Far as NY goes my water here isn't too hard. Used regular 41% gly, 2,4D, and clethodim many time without any AMS. Used gly without adding surfactant about every time too. Seems to work fine. Cleth I do use a good does of surfactant. Pretty much no choice there.
Far AMS goes in general, they say to use 17lbs per 100 gallons of 2-25 gallons per 100 of liquid. All reality, you can use much less. That formula is for severe water hardness issues. Many would be just fine with about half.
birdog
5 year old buck +
I have well water which is usually pretty hard. I have not had it tested but when I put a little dish soap in a bottle and shake it up there is just a little bit of suds which indicates hard water. I always use AMS with gly. AMS-All includes a NIS but it's hard to find near me.
I have been using AMS Xtra or Supreme with all my weak acid herbicides. Since Keystone doesn't recommend anything be added to 2,4-db I was just wondering if there was a legitimate reason. Or you can add AMS if you want, even though it may not be needed without diminishing the effectiveness of 2,4-db or harming the clover.
I have been using AMS Xtra or Supreme with all my weak acid herbicides. Since Keystone doesn't recommend anything be added to 2,4-db I was just wondering if there was a legitimate reason. Or you can add AMS if you want, even though it may not be needed without diminishing the effectiveness of 2,4-db or harming the clover.
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bigboreblr
5 year old buck +
Spoke with local farmer who does no-till rotation and alot of wheat When he uses 2,4D no AMS. These guys were more or less taught by my brother in law. Their target was 5.5pH for gly sprays. He did say he's heard 5 is even better. Southern folks even like to go down to 4. However, they typically have less hardness than northeast well water.
Would think 2,4db is quite similar to 2,4D. Crop oil is how folks heat up 2,4D if needed.
Pool test strips probably can tell you alot. Even enough AMS to go below 7 is better than not applying any.
extension.entm.purdue.edu
You got me into this subject now. At camp sedge is somewhat easy to control, difficult to entriely kill. Not sure ideal roundup conditions will change it alot. I do know there's a ton of tannins in the water. Tannins lower pH. Think I need to bring pool test strips with me. Usually do the 1st round with water at home to more important plots, then lesser plots I use creek water. Worried about nozzle clogging. I do pump with a 50 mesh strainer. Same size used in the nozzle strainers too. Keep spare nozzles and trainers and a little bottle of vinegar just incase.
Would think 2,4db is quite similar to 2,4D. Crop oil is how folks heat up 2,4D if needed.
Pool test strips probably can tell you alot. Even enough AMS to go below 7 is better than not applying any.
How Much AMS Do I Need to Combat Hard Water Antagonism of Postemergence Herbicides?
We have received a few questions this winter and spring about ammonium sulfate (AMS) rates to use with postemergence herbicides and how much is needed to overcome hard water issues.
You got me into this subject now. At camp sedge is somewhat easy to control, difficult to entriely kill. Not sure ideal roundup conditions will change it alot. I do know there's a ton of tannins in the water. Tannins lower pH. Think I need to bring pool test strips with me. Usually do the 1st round with water at home to more important plots, then lesser plots I use creek water. Worried about nozzle clogging. I do pump with a 50 mesh strainer. Same size used in the nozzle strainers too. Keep spare nozzles and trainers and a little bottle of vinegar just incase.
bigboreblr
5 year old buck +
Seems there's a maybe. is depends on what kind of chemical you're using. If 2,4d is like 24db, there 2 majot kinds. Amine or holine based water soluble ones, and ones that are ester based. Amine of choline salts should be treated, while esters are not soluable, so not needed.
Read up on the butyrac 200 label. They say to use it quickly. mix your water and the butyrac 200, if you see stuff coming out of solution, then use something called EZ-mix. Has esters in it to prevent stuff coming out of solution.
For about 20-30 bucks, you can get a water softening ion filter for a standard 10 inch filter housing. They usually want your flow rate down low, about .5 gpm. Probably good for a few years, great for spot free car wash rinsing..... Just keep it wet between uses.
Enhancing Weed Control by Reducing Hard Water Antagonism of 2,4-D in Spray Tank Mixtures
The ability of weak acid herbicides to control weeds, such as dandelions, is reduced when mixed with hard water. Hard water is commonly used to spray herbicides causing herbicide antagonism. Reversing hard water antagonism is possible by using a water conditioning agent. Adding a water...
docs.lib.purdue.edu
Read up on the butyrac 200 label. They say to use it quickly. mix your water and the butyrac 200, if you see stuff coming out of solution, then use something called EZ-mix. Has esters in it to prevent stuff coming out of solution.
For about 20-30 bucks, you can get a water softening ion filter for a standard 10 inch filter housing. They usually want your flow rate down low, about .5 gpm. Probably good for a few years, great for spot free car wash rinsing..... Just keep it wet between uses.
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bigboreblr
5 year old buck +
Reading up on pesticides and pH. Half life of pesticides sitting in the tank is greatly influenced by pH.
Ended up order LI 700 surfactant by loveland. Lowers the pH and does a surfactant. Very good chance Adirondack creek water with tanin staining the color is low pH. Very much with a water test up there.
Ended up order LI 700 surfactant by loveland. Lowers the pH and does a surfactant. Very good chance Adirondack creek water with tanin staining the color is low pH. Very much with a water test up there.
birdog
5 year old buck +
When I use 2,4-DB I have my agitator running in my tank from the time I dump it in until I'm ready to spray. Otherwise you will see white clots floating around in the mix.
omicron1792
5 year old buck +
The idea for not using ams is that it can make it hotter. The idea of 2-4db is to save some broadleafs while killing others so they don’t want people burning up the clover they are trying to save.
RGrizzzz
Administrator
Follow the label. Just calls for surfactant.
bigboreblr
5 year old buck +
Gly reacts with calcium right away. Alot of other chemicals go belwo 7 pH for storage in solution. IF you using this the same day, that effect is not happening. Some chemicals go from months in water ok down to a day or less in hard water.
birdog
5 year old buck +
I have read the label for Butyrac 200 and it does not call for anything post emergent on alfalfa when used by itself. There is no recommendations for clover specifically so I follow the recommendations for alfalfa. Keystone states no surfactant or crop oil needed.
Am I reading the label correctly?
birdog
5 year old buck +
Gly absolutely will benefit from AMS.
birdog
5 year old buck +
This makes sense. Thank you
RGrizzzz
Administrator
You are. You didn't specify the crop. I reread it and it only calls for it on some crops/situations.
birdog
5 year old buck +
Thanks Grizzzz
