2,4-DB and Additives

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domyown had a $5 off promo code givemea5 I've used them before for imidian and clethodim.

Take a look at that purdue article above. Might be able to go down to alot less AMS to still get a good spray. I usually use 24-32 oz / acre and comes out good. Might be able to use a touch less gly too. Professional spray rigs with gps and fllow control get way more even coverage than I would.

 

[RGrizzzz]

I'm curious if anyone else is using adjuvants besides AMS, surfactants, and crop oils? I recently stopped at Helena chemical to look for some liquid AMS/Nitrosurf. They didn't have it, but the guy sold me something called Hel-fire. It seems like a more catch all type additive with some added benefits. Other companies like PowerAg have something similar. Has anyone used any of these products?

Directions

• Water conditioning: HEL-FIRE® should be used at 1-2 quarts per 100 gallons of spray solution when used in place of 8.5-17 pounds of ammonium sulfate.

The costs was a little more than something like AMS, but you use less, and I don't buy enough of it that $20 really makes much of a difference. If it does what it says, and makes herbicides rainfast quicker, it's a big draw to weekend warriors like me, who don't always get the perfect weather on weekends at camp.

 

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put my fodplots in for the year at camp. 125lbs rye 20lbs oats maybe 4-5lbs clover per acre. Nicer plots got 2lbs brassica mix.

Spread seed, then tire dragged, then sprayed. 1st tank was 1 quart surpeme AMS, 1 quart 41% gly, 24oz basagran. Had troubles with the 1st tank. Inlet strainer screen was plugging again just like when using granular AMS. Got orange colored goo. Adirondack water has a orange stain to it, likely tanins from wood decay. Brought a pool test strip to check the water. Lowest pH scale when was orange 6.pH. Was really bright orange lowe than 6.2. No hardness or alkalinity. So, maybe didnt need the ammonium sulfate.

Next 3 tanks I skipped the AMS and bumped up the gly to 40oz vs 32oz. 2-3ft tall sedges, 45ft goldenrod, some grasses, some clover. One plot wasn't tall, virtually no goldenrod or sedges, some native grasses, and a decent crop of clover. Didn't spray that one. 15 gallon tank can do about 5/8 to 3/4 acre. Hoping I wasnt too light on the chemicals. Doen't seem like it on paper. Historically 90% of the golden rod dies from knocking it down.

Short story long, I think the AMS was being a flocculant for the tanin in the water, causing the screen to clog. All tanks after the 1st no problems. I will not be using AMS up there anymore. From primitve pool test, seems like theres no calcium to combat anyways. Water was from running creek or swamp upstream and pumped with a marine bildge pump through a soda can sized 3/4' pipe 50 mesh strainer. Maybe a 1/2 teaspoon of material per tank strained out from running creek and a tablespoon from the swamp due to stagnant debris.

Very much worth checking into the chemical composition of your water. Also, good to have sprare strainer screens around too. Aluminum sulfate is used as a flocculant. IT catches silica and other thing in the water and lets them sink to a settling tank, or stick to a reverse osmosis prefilter. I used to maintain boiler chemistry for large power plants early in my career. Part of keep the lights on for the grid. I am thinking AMS likes to do what aluminum sulfate does too. everse osmosis system and resin exchange beds would remove calcium and magnesium from the water. Otherwise the 2000psi 1000 deg F steam would make the deposits basically turn into glass plugging valves and turbine nozzles.

Using the AMS at home for sure. 250+ ppm calcium hardness and pH around 8.4 with the pool test strip. 5 micron whole house filter. Could use DI water, but would take awhile to fill tank.

 

[birdog]

I mix Drexel AMS (Supreme, All or Xtra) at the suggested 2.5gallons per 100 gallons. If my math is correct that's 3.2oz per gallon. For me that comes out to 64oz per acre with my sprayer @ 20gal an acre.

I think my reading comprehension and my math are correct?

 

[T-Max]

I mix Drexel AMS (Supreme, All or Xtra) at the suggested 2.5gallons per 100 gallons. If my math is correct that's 3.2oz per gallon. For me that comes out to 64oz per acre with my sprayer @ 20gal an acre.

I think my reading comprehension and my math are correct?

Consistent with mine!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

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So, my little foodplot at home I sprayed with 2 quarts 41% gly with 12 gallons of water. I took a highly scientific pool test strip and got 8.4pH an 250ppm CaCo2. My bit of chemistry class epxerience told me thats about 2lbs of AMS per 100 gal to neutralize.

So, since I have hard water but not too bad, I put 22oz of AMS supreme into 12 gallons of water. I didnt pay attention to the ppm calcium, but the pH went down to 6.4 or so.

I got about 2 acres of fallow I mow monthly at home. I sprayed the grassiest 3/4 acre of it with 16oz/acre of volunteer / clethodim. They said AMS is ok, so I only added 2.5lbs/100 gallon to nuetralize the calcium before adding

Thats was monday, going to seed thursday or friday

 

[Brian662]

So, my little foodplot at home I sprayed with 2 quarts 41% gly with 12 gallons of water. I took a highly scientific pool test strip and got 8.4pH an 250ppm CaCo2. My bit of chemistry class epxerience told me thats about 2lbs of AMS per 100 gal to neutralize.

So, since I have hard water but not too bad, I put 22oz of AMS supreme into 12 gallons of water. I didnt pay attention to the ppm calcium, but the pH went down to 6.4 or so.

I got about 2 acres of fallow I mow monthly at home. I sprayed the grassiest 3/4 acre of it with 16oz/acre of volunteer / clethodim. They said AMS is ok, so I only added 2.5lbs/100 gallon to nuetralize the calcium before adding

Thats was monday, going to seed thursday or friday

What are you seeding into the area you sprayed with clethodim? Some of us here have been burned by believing clethodim doesn't have a plant back time, but it most certainly does.

BTW, I like your experiment and posting the results.

 

[gjs4]

Forgive the newbie post purchase hijack here-

Was i worng to buy Turbo for Gly? Nitorsurf for Imox & Cleth?

 

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What are you seeding into the area you sprayed with clethodim? Some of us here have been burned by believing clethodim doesn't have a plant back time, but it most certainly does.

BTW, I like your experiment and posting the results.

Just putting clover seed with some oats n rye. like 8lbs acre of clovers and probably 40lbs/acre of rye n oat 50/50 mix. Wanted to tame down the foxtail and perennial rye in the area. Got a big variety of native "weeds" in there. plenty of plantain, some dandelion. Just want to promote the weeds more and add some clover into the field. Debating medium red because I mow often.

Awesome little common weed ID

Identifying weeds in field crops

This information about field crop weeds was developed from the publication An IPM Pocket Guide for Weed Identification in Field Crops by Wesley Everman, Christy Sprague, Steven Gower and Robert Richardson.

www.canr.msu.edu

 

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Drove the tractor through the fallow area getting soil for a flower bed. Noticed the foxtail is pretty yellow already. Might be a mute point though, the foxtail has plenty of seed heads that might be ripe.

 

[Brian662]

Just putting clover seed with some oats n rye. like 8lbs acre of clovers and probably 40lbs/acre of rye n oat 50/50 mix. Wanted to tame down the foxtail and perennial rye in the area. Got a big variety of native "weeds" in there. plenty of plantain, some dandelion. Just want to promote the weeds more and add some clover into the field. Debating medium red because I mow often.

Awesome little common weed ID

Identifying weeds in field crops

This information about field crop weeds was developed from the publication An IPM Pocket Guide for Weed Identification in Field Crops by Wesley Everman, Christy Sprague, Steven Gower and Robert Richardson.

www.canr.msu.edu

Your oats and rye will likely not germinate that closely to a clethodim application.

 

[RGrizzzz]

Forgive the newbie post purchase hijack here-

Was i worng to buy Turbo for Gly? Nitorsurf for Imox & Cleth?

You should be fine. Just read the labels

 

[birdog]

What are you seeding into the area you sprayed with clethodim? Some of us here have been burned by believing clethodim doesn't have a plant back time, but it most certainly does.

BTW, I like your experiment and posting the results.

According to Keystone:

Cleth and 2,4-db have a 2-3 week residual. Thunder and Imox have a 3 month residual.

 

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According to Keystone:

Cleth and 2,4-db have a 2-3 week residual. Thunder and Imox have a 3 month residual.

I can pass on plnting entirely there. MAybe just wait for winter to frost seed and maybe some oats in the spring. Pretty dru right now anyways/ Just came in from watering my trees again. A little rain in the forecast tonight, put some of my own water to help out. Got a good crop of curly apple leaves this year.....

regular 2,4D has a 2 week residual too. Atleast noticed in sandy soil. Not sure if clay soil hides residual a little better or worse depending how you look at it.