Food Plot Help

mtudee

Buck Fawn
Hi all,

I was looking for a bit of advice on a food plot plan. We have 160 acres in MI that is 100% wooded, surrounded by woods, and no farms for a few miles. This winter we had 30 acres of oaks select cut, which should open up some small 1/4 acre areas for planting clover this spring. We also have 25 acres of poplar that is going to get clearcut next month. We have never put in foodplots before, but are looking to start as food is the biggest missing thing in our area. Any idea if throw and mow would work in a section of the clearcut? Anyone tried something like that before? I could get a tractor/tiller back there, but no dozer for stump removal. I was hoping to put in a few acres of clover this spring, followed up with another couple acres of rye & clover in the fall.

Oh soil is all sandy-loam, with an emphasis on the sand.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

-M
 
I'm all sand. Have TnM last 2 years had really good luck with buckwheat after lime. And rye and wheat were great crops for us last year. Clover and brassica have never taken off for us but that also could be a Ph issue for us
 
do a soil test, , ask the testers what there suggestion is to get soil to a better level, and follow there suggestions
wasting money throwing seeds out hoping for results,. is not a wise way to spend money!

if I was you I would also keep an eye out for anyone building in your area and see if there willing to get rid of some dirt when digging foundations or clearing land, and bring some better soil in to mix with what you got
a GOOD small plot will make more tonnage of good food than big plot of iffy or poor results!
you can also place adds in local paper's, craigslist and face book market place looking for fill dirt, won't be perfect, but might be better than what you got!

I'd also talk to any farmers near by, even if not CLOSE by, and ask who they use to bulk spread lime, as odds are your going to need a bunch of it to get PH up, and bulk spread lime is the cheapest way to do so!
 
As MRBB said, get yourself a soil test and make some decisions based on that. In newly cleared forest there's a good chance your soil will not support too much as is. Rye is a good choice as it will grow anywhere. Spring is generally not a preferred time to plant clover, even on good soils. But you can at least get some rye down.
 
If you mean by poplar clearcut as in popple or aspen, it's most likely to come up very thick in new growth 4-5 ft high after the first summer. I'm thinking that trying to do throw mow and pray without ripping out some roots is going to end with lots of great deer browse (tree munchies) but little to show for your planting efforts. Maybe if you were clearing other hardwoods or pine but big area of former popple and sunlight is gonna grow trees like mad (in a good way) My .02
 
A clear cut is going to come back strong and take over any seed you throw down. When we clear cut a section of our property we rented a dozer and cleared a 1 acre plot in the middle. Took a day and was the best money we have spent. Secluded plot which is now surrounded by cover, 7 years of regrowth in the clearcut.
 
RocksnStumps, yes by poplar I do mean aspen.

My thought was that if I mowed down the shoots that come back up in the areas where I want foodplots, that I would hopefully be able to kill off that aspen there, and plant what I want. Because of the lack of food in our area, if there isn't a good acorn crop we don't see many deer, so I wanted to be able to have more consistent food. I do know the Aspen will be a draw for a few years, but once its grown up we will be back to a lack of food on our property.
 
they hit on a different issue, roots, if you DON"T get something in there to remove the roots of tree's and stumps, your never going to have much luck planting any food plots in the cleared areas, as at some point in the food plotter's life your going to have to till the ground, even if to just scuff it up to mix in lime or likes
and them roots will NOT allow anything to do so!

and just mowing new tress as they start to regrow the area won;'t kill them, they just keep coming back , you MIGHT be able to spray things to kill them, but it might need to be done a few times as different tree's will rebound at different times!
roots run deep on many thing and will recover after being cut and grow back as they can!

as I said, some times we want more than we can have, and mean this with no bash
the best thing to do here IMO< is, clear some small sections RIGHT< remove all the stumps and roots, , do PH test, correct soil to grow what ever you want in them, make sure they have correct soil PH and nutrients added to keep them growing and striving and keep correct amount of sunlight on it
as again, a small plot done right will make more tonnage of food than big ones that grow poorly!, not to mention be cheaper to do, as spending a lot of money on seeds and time spend playing things that won't grow is wasted money

also, as new tree growth happens, your going to have a LOT od draw to deer as they love new growth, so that alone will be a BIG addition to your property for next few yrs, giving you more time, to work on making food plots, also might not be a bad idea to wait a little and see where things go, and have food plots put inn where needed more than just in general!
 
RocksnStumps, yes by poplar I do mean aspen.

My thought was that if I mowed down the shoots that come back up in the areas where I want foodplots, that I would hopefully be able to kill off that aspen there, and plant what I want. Because of the lack of food in our area, if there isn't a good acorn crop we don't see many deer, so I wanted to be able to have more consistent food. I do know the Aspen will be a draw for a few years, but once its grown up we will be back to a lack of food on our property.
My original food plot butted up against my woods where I had a fair amount of aspen. My Forester marked this area for a spot to be clear cut because he figured it would regen back well. It did, it came in so thick it was like a wall all the way right up to my plot. I had some aspen sprouting up in my plot, but doing a light disc took them out. I might have a few sprout up here and there but it is not a problem. Aspen don't like to be cut down consistently every year. I think you will be fine if you mow them every year. It seems like after a few years they gave up trying to grow in my plot.
 
they hit on a different issue, roots, if you DON"T get something in there to remove the roots of tree's and stumps, your never going to have much luck planting any food plots in the cleared areas, as at some point in the food plotter's life your going to have to till the ground, even if to just scuff it up to mix in lime or likes
and them roots will NOT allow anything to do so!

I'm not sure I agree about this. On my small 30 I am on food plot #4 this year....all began as 80 year old maple, poplar, cherry, spruce forests that I cleared. Pulled the logs off the land for firewood or use in our maple syrup evaporator. Burned the brush. Began bringing in lots of lime. I removed no stumps. I cut them as low as I could and disced around them.

In year 1 I had rye growing. Did that for a few years. Then buckwheat. This was year 6 in my oldest plot and my soil was decent enough that I tired oats, PTT, kale, radishes, and clover. Came up nice. Stumps are still in place.

I think as long as the OP can get in there with a disc and a little glyphosate or something he'll be able to at the very least get some rye to grow without having to pull stumps.
 
You can cut a plot out of the woods and start a plot like Natty described. I have a few of those also and have done the same thing with cutting the stumps flush with the ground. They are a spray, throw and mow plot for the first couple years which work just fine. I don’t like putting my ground breaking equipment on them for a few years until things start to break down. Having done it both ways, I would go for renting a dozer for a day every time. The results are quicker and you can push the debris to certain spots surrounding the plot, forcing deer movement into and out of the plot that suits you.
Whichever way you go, you should document your project with pictures taken during the process. Start a thread and update it periodically. Those are the best threads here, we all learn something.
 
When we get started I will definitely start a thread and document the process and success/failure. I am hoping to be able follow both paths presented here.

I should not have said our property was 100% wooded. There are 3 or 4 old logging decks (maybe 0.5 - 0.75 acres total) and a 25' pipeline easement strip running through the property. Those I could try and plant "the right way" by tilling, PH test, liming, etc. I am also hoping that there are a few 1/8 acre size openings in the oak select cut area I can disc/till and plant. The trick with this is the easement and logging deck openings are on our access routes, and I am not sure how much of an issue that might be with spooking deer.

I also want to try the way Natty said, and disc the clearcut area, and try to plant rye/clover. I know the Aspen regen is going to attract deer which is great for the next few years, but once it is grown up to tall to be browse then it is a very big of a job to clear enough area to plant. By doing it now I am hoping to keep areas open for the future, while having a some level of attractant planted.
 
If I had 160 acres of mostly woods, with little ag around me, I couldn't open up a larger field fast enough. Use some of your logging money to pay for a bulldozer, usually around $1,000 / day with the operator in my area. (They can do a LOT in one day!)

I would recommend more of a larger destinationish (2-5 acre) food plot in lieu of a bunch of smaller hidey hole plots. Will be MUCH easier to hunt and pattern deer. Bucks especially. Plus it opens up a lot more food plotting options rather than just scratching the ground and trying to get rye and clover to come up.

Location Wise: Great larger plot areas are usually flatter areas.. Either bottom fields or ridge fields, as deer tend to bed on the hillsides overlooking, or just off these fields. A good topo map is your friend here for planning out your property.

Whatever you choose..

1) First off, get a soil test. It tells you EVERYTHING about your land. What your soil is naturally higher in, deficiencies, CEC, pH etc all are huge helps to getting a quality yield.

2) You either need to remove the existing stumps with a bulldozer or rent a stump grinder and grind them all down 6" or so above the soil surface so it will kill the tree. If you don't remove or treat, they will come back. If you treat and don't remove, they will always be in the way for your implements.

3) Lastly, you need to remove the saplings and woody vegetation. Unless you do this, they will always be sapping your moisture, lime and fertilizer. Essentially all nutrients.. Even a heavy disc won't cut it (believe me I've tried). You need to either find someone with a soil ripper (Either a local neighbor, farmer or on the back of a bulldozer) or a bottom plow in there. Rip it all out.

From there, you have a clean slate to plant however and whatever you want for a great plot each year. If you build it, they will come..

Good luck!
 
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If I had 160 acres of mostly woods, with little ag around me, I couldn't open up a larger field fast enough. Use some of your logging money to pay for a bulldozer, usually around $1,000 / day with the operator in my area. (They can do a LOT in one day!)

I would recommend more of a larger destinationish (2-5 acre) food plot in lieu of a bunch of smaller hidey hole plots. Will be MUCH easier to hunt and pattern deer. Bucks especially. Plus it opens up a lot more food plotting options rather than just scratching the ground and trying to get rye and clover to come up.

Location Wise: Great larger plot areas are usually flatter areas.. Either bottom fields or ridge fields, as deer tend to bed on the hillsides overlooking, or just off these fields. A good topo map is your friend here for planning out your property.

Whatever you choose..

1) First off, get a soil test. It tells you EVERYTHING about your land. What your soil is naturally higher in, deficiencies, CEC, pH etc all are huge helps to getting a quality yield.

2) You either need to remove the existing stumps with a bulldozer or rent a stump grinder and grind them all down 6" or so above the soil surface so it will kill the tree. If you don't remove or treat, they will come back. If you treat and don't remove, they will always be in the way for your implements.

3) Lastly, you need to remove the saplings and woody vegetation. Unless you do this, they will always be sapping your moisture, lime and fertilizer. Essentially all nutrients.. Even a heavy disc won't cut it (believe me I've tried). You need to either find someone with a soil ripper (Either a local neighbor, farmer or on the back of a bulldozer) or a bottom plow in there. Rip it all out.

From there, you have a clean slate to plant however and whatever you want for a great plot each year. If you build it, they will come..

Good luck!

Agree 100% with the above.

My parents bought 170 acres of recently logged timber ground in northern MN a few years ago. No ag or food plots for miles and the food is a significant draw.

I’d clear and get the aspen roots out best you can. We have done well enough for good plots with a skid steer using brush cutter and root rake attachments. A dozer would be preferable.

The biggest issue at my parents place IMO is they planted all the food adjacent to the logging roads and human travel routes and put a bunch of permanent stands there so I think it keeps mature buck use nocturnal.

I’d pick the destination food plot to be somewhere you can keep free of human scent, sight and sound and find ways to hunt the travel patterns to the plot in places you have clean access. If you hunt the plot a bunch or are in there pulling SD cards frequently you will poison the daytime buck movement.
 
FWIW -
The 3 things that we've used at our camp on new ground ( that worked ) are rye grain, buckwheat, and Alsike clover. All 3 tolerate poorer soil conditions if the soil pH isn't good. We seeded rye grain on brand new, rutted logging roads with NO amendments of any kind and got good green growth on the rye. ( our soil isn't sandy though ). Farmers have used buckwheat as a first planting on newly tilled ground for decades. Older farmers near our camp clued us in to that bit of advice - and it grew!! Deer ate it. Alsike clover is good for 1 year - maybe 2 - but it doesn't require great pH levels to grow.

Aspen WILL sprout new saplings from the roots after clear cutting. You may need to spray with Garlon (triclopyr) to kill the sprouts and roots - if you want a clear food plot with no aspen sprouts.
 
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