Starting from square 1 on implements for food plotting

To be honest, food plotting is a hobby for most of us - and oftentimes, expensive. Most of us dont make a living off the game that calls our lands home, but it would be hard to justify the time, effort, and money that many of us put into this past time if we didnt have the animals to justify our cost and work. In reality, a person can create very nice food plots with very rudimentary equipment. I know a guy who rigged a bracket on the back of his $1000 Yard Machine riding mower to hold a sprayer. He sprayed the plots from his riding lawn mower. He spread seed and fertilizer with a bag spreader. And then mowed the plot - and has had some beautiful looking food plots - and his equipment costs were about $200 for the sprayer and seeder combined - he already had the mower for his yard. I have seen plots produced with a $50,000 tractor and a $18,000 drill that were absolutely no better. I planted 30 acres a year with a 28 hp tractor, five ft disk, 5 ft bush hog, 3 pt spreader, and a drag - and had really great food plots.

To be honest, I invested in bigger and "better" equipment to cut my time down. If I was planting five acres, it would be very difficult for me to justify owning a 65 hp tractor, Woods Seeder, and all the other supporting equipment for no more food plot acreage than that. However, the more acreage you do, the easier it is to invest in equipment to reduce planting time and improve success. I now plant about 60 acres a year - specific food plots for ducks, deer, doves, and turkeys. Not only can upgrading equipment reduce time and effort, it can increase success due to more consistent seed depth, metering, coverage, etc. I have used everything from hand crank spreaders to high dollar no-till equipment all in the same year. I own a hand crank spreader, an electric spreader for my SXS, a 3 pt spreader, a one row covington planter, and an 84" Woods Seeder. I use them all - every year.

As you become more familiar with your place, you can better identify the specific equipment you need. I have a 10" pto water pump and 500 ft of 10" aluminum pipe capable of moving 3500 gallons of water per minute. It is strictly used for dewatering or pumping up duck holes. Some years, when water conditions are right - it doesnt even get used - it is truly a specific, one dimensional, expensive piece of equipment. There is no other piece of equipment that is capable of pumping quantities of water - if you need water pumped in the middle of nowhere, you dont really have much choice. Conversely, when it come to planting, you have a lot of choices - from a hand crank spreader to a no-till drill - and a lot in between. Your land, planting choices, finances, and time will dictate your purchases. For example, when I decided to step up to a higher grade planter over a spreader, there is basically a no-till drill and what would be consider a food plot planter like a Woods Seeder or Firminator. I have used a no-till drill and they are top of the line for planting - but that is all they do. For me, that is a lot of money to spend for a very specific piece of planting equipment that has no other use. That is why I selected a Woods Seeder - a fair bit less expensive, and it also has a very effective disk that can be used strictly for disking. It also has a cultipacker and spiked roller - that can be used just for cultipacking. I plant an acre every 20 minutes. It also seemed a little bit more durable than a no-till for less than optimum conditions, and I also dont like the way no-tills only plant in rows and dont completely cover the ground - but that is strictly a personal thing. No tills are the king of strictly planting. My Woods does require a little better field prep in some cases.

That is what works best for me - but it might not for everyone. Most folks dont plant for deer, turkeys, dove, and ducks. But I have also modified my planting regime to match my equipment and time constraints. For deer, almost all my food plots are are durana clover and wheat. I pull my Woods Seeder through my clover each fall, planting wheat, and only disturbing about 50% of the dirt. That still creates a thick even growth of wheat and stimulates the clover. I use no fertilizer at any time. My ground does not require lime. I bush hog a couple times a year if required - and that is it. I plant my thirty acres of deer food plots in two days. I have been doing this stuff since 1979 - and I didnt figure it out overnight. That is what works for me - based upon my area, soil, deer density, time, and finances. But that has no bearing on what works best for someone else.

Lots of well meaning advice and personal success stories being shared. I do want to remind everyone with the conditions the OP will face in his neck of the woods. Winter is the stress period for critters. The ground has frost and hard as a rock for 5 months outta the year. No soil building is happening when ground is an ice cube so routines that build soil 12 months a year for you will not yield as quick or meaningful results there. Winters are snow levels of 2 ft or more for months so unless food is available several ft off the ground it will mean deer are likely to move elsewhere. So plant stuff that keeps that in mind and focus plan on forestry as much as food plots for trees/shrubs and browse. Perhaps a grapple attachment later down the road for woods work is a better plan than getting an expensive no till drill at that time. So scratch the food plot itch by planting grains, clovers, and brassica but think about the several months they are buried under deep snow and maybe plant some areas with corn too.

Personally with that much woods and likely a lot of popple regen possible, I would clear cut blocks of 10-20 acres every 3 to 5 years as part of my management plan. Assuming off course that a local pulp market exists to make it easy to find loggers.

Just outstanding. Thank you all!

Discussed it today with my wife. She’s absolutely on board with a smaller number of implements and likes the idea of saving time .....particularly for the next few years.

But she also thinks separate implements are fine too. Only Caveat was that that the storage / shop building project plan can’t get even bigger than it is now.

So that leaves me still doing lots of research and trying to decide......or I’m getting divorced and just don’t know it yet....based on her agreement to BOTH plans. Spooks me a little :)

As far as my forestry, I’m signed up for a WDNR program that is getting me a site visit this coming summer by a state forester from my immediate area, and a wildlife biologist. I tell them my goals and they make recommendation for projects above and beyond plotting. We develop an actual plan on “ paper”. Looking forward to that.

Maddog66 said:

I may not have said it above, but my fields haven’t been opened in 10 years. The guy who did it still takes hay every year.

I looked at a Woods PSS84 this morning and the dealer actually had a buddy, who is a hired hand on a huge deer property that uses one for many acres of plots in various soil types every year. Got him on the phone.....great guy with tons of knowledge. When it all boiled down, he felt the Woods is a good to great thing for land managers in my “range”....so to speak. He’s run it on a tractor even a little smaller than mine.

He told me that NO WAY will I be able to conduct primary tillage with it successfully. He said if I get it disked with big equipment this year and maybe next, it would be great afterward for the life of the plot. He said small seeds work well and larger seeds do too.....but just don’t expect rows....more of a wide row that eventually grows into the next. But you can feather the disc and rollers to do a fine job. I saw a couple of pics.

BUT for soil health, wouldn’t it be best to NOT ever roll it over deeply ....just so you can get to the point where you can plant plots without rolling it over deeply?

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I have had the Firminator and the Woods PSS84 and if you have rocks or pieces of tree wood or roots in your plots, the woods will not work well. I sold it after the first year of using it after several repairs. It is not built heavy enough for rough work. The Firminator is better but I personally would buy a used no till drill and avoid tilling at all. Keep your organic matter and it will benefit your plots in the long run. You can make a difference with 300 acres if you put in the time and effort. You don't need 1000 acres to make a difference in the deer herd. You just need to be smart about where you put things to keep the deer you want on you property during daylight. If they go to the neighbors after dark that is ok as long as they come back before it gets light. Keep your core areas very low pressure and put any new plots on the edges of your property line just out of sight of the neighbors. Make sure you have good access for your outer plots. That will go a long way to may the property better.

DavidHunter2001 said:

I have had the Firminator and the Woods PSS84 and if you have rocks or pieces of tree wood or roots in your plots, the woods will not work well. I sold it after the first year of using it after several repairs. It is not built heavy enough for rough work. The Firminator is better but I personally would buy a used no till drill and avoid tilling at all. Keep your organic matter and it will benefit your plots in the long run. You can make a difference with 300 acres if you put in the time and effort. You don't need 1000 acres to make a difference in the deer herd. You just need to be smart about where you put things to keep the deer you want on you property during daylight. If they go to the neighbors after dark that is ok as long as they come back before it gets light. Keep your core areas very low pressure and put any new plots on the edges of your property line just out of sight of the neighbors. Make sure you have good access for your outer plots. That will go a long way to may the property better.

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You can make a difference with 1 acre or 300 acres, but not one large enough to measure. When deer spend time off your ground (or ground where you have cooperation or influence) young bucks will get shot, and nutrition of the surrounding ground will impact the herd. If quality food is the limiting factor, if you convert 3% of a deer's home range into quality food you can begin to measure the difference in terms of body weight and antler size metrics. At 5% that difference becomes much more significant. Home ranges vary with habitat, but 1,000 acres is a pretty good proxy.

So, if quality food is the limitation on your herd and you only own 30 acres and plant all 30 acres, you could have a measurable nutritional impact on the herd. But nutrition is only one leg of the stool. The other leg that we can have a significant impact on is age. Without sufficient scale, protecting young bucks is pretty much impossible.

Improving a property's huntability is a different story. Quite small properties can be gold mines from a hunting perspective.

You advice is sound, but folks often set unrealistic expectation in terms of what can be accomplished from a herd perspective. The OP has a very achievable set of objectives.

Thanks,

Jack

I don’t want to get too far off topic for this thread, but relating to plots on the edges of the property. I’m wondering if my situation might be an exception.

it’s true that the easiest and best AG land on my property is roughly on the center of it. It’ narrow and long with a Y on the furthest point that forms 2 five to seven acre hidden fields. They’re hidden by woods and topography. Not visible from any road.

But what I really like about the property is that it runs dead North and South from County road to County road (.97 miles)and I have improved access points and connecting trails on both ends. In addition, the neighbor on one side owns a gravel pit and he gave me access to access my property thru his. He and the previous owner cooperated with one another for years and it’s carried over for me. He’s a great guy but I realize this could change with the stroke of a pen. (I’ll try to buy it when the gravel runs out).

Anyway, the point is that I have access to the center of my property from 3 sides. A long as I don’t walk up the middle on the wrong wind and blow it up. Do I really need to spend the next 5 years walking away from beautiful hidden fields on the center to reclaim hardwoods for fields closer to the lines? Seems counter-intuitive with such excellent access.

Maddog66 said:

I don’t want to get too far off topic for this thread, but relating to plots on the edges of the property. I’m wondering if my situation might be an exception.

it’s true that the easiest and best AG land on my property is roughly on the center of it. It’ narrow and long with a Y on the furthest point that forms 2 five to seven acre hidden fields. They’re hidden by woods and topography. Not visible from any road.

But what I really like about the property is that it runs dead North and South from County road to County road (.97 miles)and I have improved access points and connecting trails on both ends. In addition, the neighbor on one side owns a gravel pit and he gave me access to access my property thru his. He and the previous owner cooperated with one another for years and it’s carried over for me. He’s a great guy but I realize this could change with the stroke of a pen. (I’ll try to buy it when the gravel runs out).

Anyway, the point is that I have access to the center of my property from 3 sides. A long as I don’t walk up the middle on the wrong wind and blow it up. Do I really need to spend the next 5 years walking away from beautiful hidden fields on the center to reclaim hardwoods for fields closer to the lines? Seems counter-intuitive with such excellent access.

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Having access rights from the neighbors is big. I have the same situation on one of my farms. When I gained that access, it changed everything. With any plot, they are going to eventually get wise, especially if you hunt it a lot. I won't place a stand on a plot that I don't have secure ingress/egress. Nothing worse than getting out of a blind with 25 deer watching you. That's the toughest part...

Do you guys feel like it “safe” to share land pics on here? I’d love to show this group what I have and discuss, but not so much the Russian Bot farms :)

Pretty much any cell phone pic these days is gonna capture some gps data buried in there somewhere for those with the right skill. Some folks use a screenshot off their computer and ok dont know where land is but generally know where you live.

Me, all my pics shared here are just from a $100 digital camera, no gps on that sucker. Its the camera I take on my Canada fishing trips and elsewhere as not wanting to deep six a phone.

Maddog66 said:

Do you guys feel like it “safe” to share land pics on here? I’d love to show this group what I have and discuss, but not so much the Russian Bot farms :)

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If you are worried about that, screen shot your pics while in town and use the screen shots.

Maddog66 said:

I don’t want to get too far off topic for this thread, but relating to plots on the edges of the property. I’m wondering if my situation might be an exception.

it’s true that the easiest and best AG land on my property is roughly on the center of it. It’ narrow and long with a Y on the furthest point that forms 2 five to seven acre hidden fields. They’re hidden by woods and topography. Not visible from any road.

But what I really like about the property is that it runs dead North and South from County road to County road (.97 miles)and I have improved access points and connecting trails on both ends. In addition, the neighbor on one side owns a gravel pit and he gave me access to access my property thru his. He and the previous owner cooperated with one another for years and it’s carried over for me. He’s a great guy but I realize this could change with the stroke of a pen. (I’ll try to buy it when the gravel runs out).

Anyway, the point is that I have access to the center of my property from 3 sides. A long as I don’t walk up the middle on the wrong wind and blow it up. Do I really need to spend the next 5 years walking away from beautiful hidden fields on the center to reclaim hardwoods for fields closer to the lines? Seems counter-intuitive with such excellent access.

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Access is important. Sounds like you have a few different ways to get to your plot in the center. As long as you are not blowing the deer out entering and leaving your hunting locations then it sounds like you should be able to hunt the center plot occasionally. I would make some smaller transition plots that are close to the main plot and hunt them. They don't have to be big just enough that they can visit them on the way to the destination plot. Then make some good bedding areas in key locations that are not near you entry exit trails. Don't try and do it all at once. Maybe a few a year. You have plenty of time to make improvements. I bet you will find yourself spending lots more time on projects and if you are like me you cant wait to get to spring to get started on stuff. Too wet right now to do much on my property.

Maddog66 said:

I don’t want to get too far off topic for this thread, but relating to plots on the edges of the property. I’m wondering if my situation might be an exception.

it’s true that the easiest and best AG land on my property is roughly on the center of it. It’ narrow and long with a Y on the furthest point that forms 2 five to seven acre hidden fields. They’re hidden by woods and topography. Not visible from any road.

But what I really like about the property is that it runs dead North and South from County road to County road (.97 miles)and I have improved access points and connecting trails on both ends. In addition, the neighbor on one side owns a gravel pit and he gave me access to access my property thru his. He and the previous owner cooperated with one another for years and it’s carried over for me. He’s a great guy but I realize this could change with the stroke of a pen. (I’ll try to buy it when the gravel runs out).

Anyway, the point is that I have access to the center of my property from 3 sides. A long as I don’t walk up the middle on the wrong wind and blow it up. Do I really need to spend the next 5 years walking away from beautiful hidden fields on the center to reclaim hardwoods for fields closer to the lines? Seems counter-intuitive with such excellent access.

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Every property is unique. There are some general principles that we can talk about that influence deer movement and the amount of pressure they feel as well as access routes. It makes little sense to put a food plot where crops will struggle. You also have to take into account your methods and equipment. A secluded sub-acre plot may have some great characteristics, but if you plan to use large equipment and don't have easy access to the plot with it, you've got a problem. Plotting on slopes can create run-off and erosion issues.

This is where planning first comes in. You know your property and how deer currently relate to it. You know your neighbors (at least better than we do).

When we started, we got state wildlife department biologists to come out as well as a state forester. We then hired a private forester. We got into some USDA NRCS programs and had their wildlife biologists come out. In the end, we ended up with a plan that worked pretty well for our property, but things change over time. Neighbors change, the hunting community changes, and deer change based on how you hunt and manipulate the habitat. Populations go up and down over time. We started with no coyotes and ended up with a lot. So, you plan has to adapt as well.

Thanks,

Jack

If I were starting from square 1 as you are, and with your property size - I would get a nice no-till drill in a heartbeat (and maybe a bush hog).

- Much less time in planting, implement swapping.. especially given your drive. (our farm is 3 hours away as well so I can relate).
- Long term you'll use less fertilizer, chemicals (if any after the first year), & even tractor gas doing a single pass vs multiple. Even a tow behind 6' LP drill only takes a 40 HP minimum. There are advantages to both styles.
- You can plant anything including soybeans, milo, etc. should your uses/desire change. You'll want soybeans eventually
- Even storage is more compact, helpful given limited space.

That’s exactly what I’ve been thinking David. The way I have these 4 plots in my head right now, I’ll be able to get into all of them from 3 different directions, and I’ll have those same options to chose from to get out if I’m covered up by deer (not likely) or if the wind switches. If I do sit ON the plots, I won’t be able to see any of the others due to topography and distance. But my hope is to learn enough this fall to find the travel routes to/from them and between them. Then only hunt the right wind for that “section”.

Jack, thank you. I’m definitely going to share the notes from my biologist / forester tour with you...... if that’s ok? I’m already writing down all the topics I need to hit with them.

Bass, you’re killin me brother! There is a big part of me that already thinks I’ll end up exactly there one day....with a “real” NT drill. I’m not a farmer, but it sure makes sense in so many ways. Problem is, it’s not really “just a couple” thousand more than the $10k I had in my head. New, we’re looking at 2x that near as I can tell. A year ago I wasn’t even thinking about the first number but I also have a 20+ year time horizon.....assuming nothing big goes to H in a hand basket health wise.

Yes, the snow can’t leave fast enough at this point. Going up next weekend to trim and spray apple trees. Need a fix :)

Maddog66 said:

That’s exactly what I’ve been thinking David. The way I have these 4 plots in my head right now, I’ll be able to get into all of them from 3 different directions, and I’ll have those same options to chose from to get out if I’m covered up by deer (not likely) or if the wind switches. If I do sit ON the plots, I won’t be able to see any of the others due to topography and distance. But my hope is to learn enough this fall to find the travel routes to/from them and between them. Then only hunt the right wind for that “section”.

Jack, thank you. I’m definitely going to share the notes from my biologist / forester tour with you...... if that’s ok? I’m already writing down all the topics I need to hit with them.

Bass, you’re killin me brother! There is a big part of me that already thinks I’ll end up exactly there one day....with a “real” NT drill. I’m not a farmer, but it sure makes sense in so many ways. Problem is, it’s not really “just a couple” thousand more than the $10k I had in my head. New, we’re looking at 2x that near as I can tell. A year ago I wasn’t even thinking about the first number but I also have a 20+ year time horizon.....assuming nothing big goes to H in a hand basket health wise.

Yes, the snow can’t leave fast enough at this point. Going up next weekend to trim and spray apple trees. Need a fix :)

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If you are surrounded by forest with little AG in the area I would not be surprised to see your plots have lots of deer on them. Especially if you have something they really like in the plots. Be prepared to take a lot of does to keep the numbers down. If not they can wipe out your plots pretty fast. If you think about each doe having 2 fawns the numbers can go up pretty quickly on a property if you are drawing them in and keeping them on your property. 1 doe becomes 3 deer the following year and then, if two of those three are does 2 become 6 the next year... Its a lot easier to keep it under control at the start than trying to take does after it is out of control.

In my county, there hasn’t been a doe tag issued by the state for the last 4 years. This coming might be the first one with a very limited quota on private land only. I hope they eat everything I plant and I hope it helps them.

So I have 125 acres with about 6 acres devoted to 7 plots. I have opened up some strips in the pine and about to add one in the hardwood bottom. Counting those I will have about 10-11 plots this year. Like you, I have a 2 hour drive with no house to stay on, so I roundtrip it. I used to farm with the ATV, but running back and forth to move implements between plots was a huge time killer. Once I reached the 5-6 acre size, I bought a tractor and a Firminator. This was as I was learning about no till. The Firminator was my top end for a planter, so I did not get a drill. Probably should have. I love the Firminator as a planter, and my soil is getting to where I can almost use it as a "no till", but still discing a bit. I don't have a separate disc, so I also use it for firebreaks and some road maintenance.

Like you, it was all about time for me. I can get everything done in about a day or a day and a half, including the woods, if I can single pass plant. Some plots need at least some min till for now. Perhaps the tractor with separate implements would have been a time saver over the ATV, but I just went all in for a planter. I probably would consider aiming towards a drill if I were you, but the Firminator has been a huge time saver.

Maddog66 said:

In my county, there hasn’t been a doe tag issued by the state for the last 4 years. This coming might be the first one with a very limited quota on private land only. I hope they eat everything I plant and I hope it helps them.

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What state are you in?

I have had a different experience with does. Ten years ago our g&f department was professing the importance of “balancing” the herd by reducing the number of does. We drank the koolaide and went all in. With an annual bag limit of six does, we went from a 1:3 buck to doe ratio to a 1:1 buck to doe ratio in two years. Our statewide average fawn recruitment numbers is .5 fawns per adult doe. With a 1:1 buck to doe ratio - a .5 fawn recruitment number - a 1:1 buck to doe ratio does not leave enough does to produce enough fawns to replace all mortality. Our deer herd crashed. In our case, with our neighbor’s help - it was easy and quick to kill the does down. It took six long years of not shooting a single doe - not even letting the grand kids shoot them - before we got back to a deer population where we feel like we can now kill one or two does on 350 acres. In our case, it was quick and easy to get rid of them - but a long struggle to get them back.

I would suggest you do some pre hunt camera surveys and see just how many does and fawns you have.