Wolf or Coyote?

[Keystonepaul]

found that article inteesting, but also a bit misleading folks. Yes there is wolf DNA in the eastern coyote, but 55 pounds larger than a regular yote??? come on now- our coyotes will be in the mid 20's to almost 50 pound range pretty regularly. with a few being in the 50's and even less occassionally reaching even bigger weights. Coyotes will mate with dogs- it happens rarely and usually as range expands and numbers of males and females are out of balance or scarce. It quickly goes away as numbers increase- an evolutionary necessity. Guess the same could be said, and was mentioned in the article we had a link to. I remember back in the 70's when coyotes were first being seen. Folks talked about "coydogs", just like folks talk about mountain lions in PA. There were neither. They are not some wierd species, they are coyotes with a little bit of DNA influence from the wolf and dog, injected into their ancestry at times when it was necessary, not some giant freak of nature coyote roaming around. just a bit bigger, but every bit your common coyote.

 

[H20fwler]

We have weighed a few of the biggest yotes we have gotten with the biggest ever being an extra large male 47 pounds. We kill anywhere from ten to forty every fall/winter with average weights being closer to 25/30 pounds on females and young ones, 35 on males. We have hunted and trapped them since the early 80's. I've even shot a few in Alberta and Sask.

Here is the biggest I ever had my hands on.

 

[yoderjac]

found that article inteesting, but also a bit misleading folks. Yes there is wolf DNA in the eastern coyote, but 55 pounds larger than a regular yote??? come on now- our coyotes will be in the mid 20's to almost 50 pound range pretty regularly. with a few being in the 50's and even less occassionally reaching even bigger weights. Coyotes will mate with dogs- it happens rarely and usually as range expands and numbers of males and females are out of balance or scarce. It quickly goes away as numbers increase- an evolutionary necessity. Guess the same could be said, and was mentioned in the article we had a link to. I remember back in the 70's when coyotes were first being seen. Folks talked about "coydogs", just like folks talk about mountain lions in PA. There were neither. They are not some wierd species, they are coyotes with a little bit of DNA influence from the wolf and dog, injected into their ancestry at times when it was necessary, not some giant freak of nature coyote roaming around. just a bit bigger, but every bit your common coyote.

I saw an interesting documentary. I think it was on PBS. It is worth a watch. My point is simply that the lines are blurring and it is getting more and more difficult to ID from a picture alone.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Natty Bumppo]

found that article inteesting, but also a bit misleading folks. Yes there is wolf DNA in the eastern coyote, but 55 pounds larger than a regular yote??? come on now- our coyotes will be in the mid 20's to almost 50 pound range pretty regularly. with a few being in the 50's and even less occassionally reaching even bigger weights. Coyotes will mate with dogs- it happens rarely and usually as range expands and numbers of males and females are out of balance or scarce. It quickly goes away as numbers increase- an evolutionary necessity. Guess the same could be said, and was mentioned in the article we had a link to. I remember back in the 70's when coyotes were first being seen. Folks talked about "coydogs", just like folks talk about mountain lions in PA. There were neither. They are not some wierd species, they are coyotes with a little bit of DNA influence from the wolf and dog, injected into their ancestry at times when it was necessary, not some giant freak of nature coyote roaming around. just a bit bigger, but every bit your common coyote.

Agree. And the info in that article is really not that new. I did my senior thesis at UMASS Amherst on the Eastern Coyote back in 1995 and back then it was known that coyotes in the East had mitochondrial DNA from wolves. In the 80's the term "coydogs," though inaccurate, was pervasive. Today I rarely hear anybody refer to them as nothing but coyotes.

With that said, I have never studied wolves or lived in wolf country and indeed the lines that separate wolves from coyotes where they are sympatric may be blurring.

As an aside, I get a kick out of people here in Mass. who swear they saw a "wolf" in their backyard. No, I tell them. Most likely just a coyote. "Oh no, I know coyotes. This was a wolf!" O.K., I say. Same people who swear they also see Mtn. Lions.

 

[Bill]

That's funny. There's plenty of mountain lions running around my neck of the woods in MO. I hear about them all the time. One lady saw one jump my fence when she was on her way to work.

Their slippery though. I have trail cameras running 24/7/365 and never get any pictures. Mountain lions must be camera shy.

 

[Keystonepaul]

Hi Yoder Jack, wasn't callin you out by any means....our eastern coyotes are bigger and it appears the reason is a bit of wolf introduced into their DNA...but they are not as big as the article would lead one to believe... wonder 50 years from now if the size wil ltrend bigger or smaller....I went to Penn State so someone will have to help me on the statistical or ecologial reasoning for it to go one way or the other.

 

[yoderjac]

Hi Yoder Jack, wasn't callin you out by any means....our eastern coyotes are bigger and it appears the reason is a bit of wolf introduced into their DNA...but they are not as big as the article would lead one to believe... wonder 50 years from now if the size wil ltrend bigger or smaller....I went to Penn State so someone will have to help me on the statistical or ecologial reasoning for it to go one way or the other.

No offence taken. Wasn't promoting the article specifically or its conclusions. Some of the behavioral changes are interesting as well as they are moving into our cities. Can't help much with the forecast since I graduates from PSU as well. :)

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Natty Bumppo]

That's funny. There's plenty of mountain lions running around my neck of the woods in MO. I hear about them all the time. One lady saw one jump my fence when she was on her way to work.

Their slippery though. I have trail cameras running 24/7/365 and never get any pictures. Mountain lions must be camera shy.

Bill, that's funny. But I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. It's the same here. Everybody I know has seen a mtn. lion except for me. Packs of them. Everybody. Those same folks also all have cell phones, but every time they see a mtn. lion nobody can quite get a picture of one. Strange. Not a cell phone pic. Not a trail cam pic. But mtn. lions are everywhere though. I'm being sarcastic.

Does MO really have mtn. lions?

 

[Redonthehead]

Does MO really have mtn. lions?

Yes, but not very many. Only 68 officially confirmed since 1994. I believe they still claim no breeding in MO.
https://nature.mdc.mo.gov/discover-...-lion-reports/confirmed-mountain-lion-reports

 

[Bill]

Bill, that's funny. But I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. It's the same here. Everybody I know has seen a mtn. lion except for me. Packs of them. Everybody. Those same folks also all have cell phones, but every time they see a mtn. lion nobody can quite get a picture of one. Strange. Not a cell phone pic. Not a trail cam pic. But mtn. lions are everywhere though. I'm being sarcastic.

Does MO really have mtn. lions?

Yes just kidding. Same thing in my neighborhood. Lots of sightings but no pictures. Someone did shoot one in IA a few years ago.

MO state record Bobcat is 38 lbs. that's a big cat. Add rain, lowlight, etc and it's a panther.

 

[swat1018]

MDC did just confirm a female cat. Most of the other sightings have been males dispersing from other males. So, they said a breeding is believed more possible than before.

 

[Bill]

MDC did just confirm a female cat. Most of the other sightings have been males dispersing from other males. So, they said a breeding is believed more possible than before.

Lovely!
But I don't know anything about them. Seems they stay pretty spread out so how many deer can they eat. Can't be close to what a wolf pack eats.

Still might keep you puckered up one the walk in when it's dark. :emoji_tiger2: