Will live clover provide N for brassica seedlings

[hilltopper]

I asked this on another thread but it got buried. I have brassica seedlings coming up in a fair clover field that I broadcast first, mowed very close, and then about a week later treated with cleth (after the grass really greened up and broke through any thatch). The question is: Do I need to spread some Nitrogen fertilizer or will the live clover provide enough? I seem to remember in a link in an old LC thread that the nitrogen fixed by clover is not really available to nearby plants unless the clover is terminated. It surprised me at the time, and I thought I must have misinterpreted.

 

[yoderjac]

Clover fixes nitrogen from the atmosphere, but most of that Nitrogen stays in the plant until it dies. Perennial clover is constantly dying and regenerating from the root system. Each year the amount of N available to other plants will increase somewhat. You'll notice how grasses invade a perennial clover field over time. Each year, the plot becomes more attractive. However, whether the annual or perennial, most of the N is released when the crop is terminated.

I will say that I almost never add N to my plots. The only added N my crops get is the small percentage of N that is in the MAP I use to achieve my P requirements. Smart mixing of crops along with soil improvement techniques allows me to do this. Keep in mind that most soil tests are aimed at farmers that plant monocultures and harvest them removing nutrients from the soil that need to be replaced. Food plotters using no-till techniques can rely more on nutrient cycling.

I typically broadcast a cover crop mix of Crimson Clover, Purple Top Turnips, and Winter Rye into standing soybeans. I get great turnips with no added N.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[WTNUT]

Clover fixes nitrogen from the atmosphere, but most of that Nitrogen stays in the plant until it dies. Perennial clover is constantly dying and regenerating from the root system. Each year the amount of N available to other plants will increase somewhat. You'll notice how grasses invade a perennial clover field over time. Each year, the plot becomes more attractive. However, whether the annual or perennial, most of the N is released when the crop is terminated.

I will say that I almost never add N to my plots. The only added N my crops get is the small percentage of N that is in the MAP I use to achieve my P requirements. Smart mixing of crops along with soil improvement techniques allows me to do this. Keep in mind that most soil tests are aimed at farmers that plant monocultures and harvest them removing nutrients from the soil that need to be replaced. Food plotters using no-till techniques can rely more on nutrient cycling.

I typically broadcast a cover crop mix of Crimson Clover, Purple Top Turnips, and Winter Rye into standing soybeans. I get great turnips with no added N.

Thanks,

Jack

Does it matter how the clover dies? Is there advantages to tilling it under versus spraying it with Gly?


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[yoderjac]

Most of the N is in the roots. I'd say there are disadvantages to tilling it not advantages.

 

[BC Buck]

Most of the N is in the roots. I'd say there are disadvantages to tilling it not advantages.

LC always liked to argue that statement. He had a link that stated the roots had over 50% of the N available but showed tillage had more advantages. This year I tilled under but most years weather does not cooperate and I hit with gly.

 

[j-bird]

Legumes produce their own nitrogen and what they don't consume themselves gets stored in the plant for the most part. I don't think it matters how the plant dies, but it only makes those reserve store of N available once the plant is terminated. Farmers rotate soybeans here all the time for not just the crop, but for some N credits for a following corn crop. Those plants die naturally as they are annuals and I have tilled clover under as well and had good results, so that is why I don;t think it's how it dies.....as long as it dies.

 

[sagittarius]

Short answer, yes, the brassicas will do better with added Nitrogen. But, with the competition from the clover for moisture and nutrients, how well will they do anyway? Keep in mind, clover can benefit from added Nitrogen too. Ed Spinazzola in his book "Ultimate Deer Food Plots" talks about putting Nitrogen on his clover plots two weeks before bow season to give them a boost to improve taste preference for deer.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

Adding N to legumes reduces the amount of N it will fix from the atmosphere. However it increases the protein content in them.

 

[yoderjac]

LC always liked to argue that statement. He had a link that stated the roots had over 50% of the N available but showed tillage had more advantages. This year I tilled under but most years weather does not cooperate and I hit with gly.

Tillage introduces O2 into the soil speeding the consumption of OM and disrupts soil tilth. Take a look at some of Ray the soil Guys videos on the impacts of tillage. I'm not arguing that more N won't be available by tilling clover. I'm arguing that short term N banking is less important than long term soil health.

 

[jsasker007]

I'd leave the clover with the brassicas and have more food available.

 

[Fall's Legend]

Tillage introduces O2 into the soil speeding the consumption of OM and disrupts soil tilth. Take a look at some of Ray the soil Guys videos on the impacts of tillage. I'm not arguing that more N won't be available by tilling clover. I'm arguing that short term N banking is less important than long term soil health.

I like turning soil for just that reason.