just a few ideas:
crab trees have 1000s of fruit vs 100s on an apple tree.
if crabs already out number apples in an area, you might be talking millions of fruit vs 100s.
birds eat the crabs, but not the apples, the crab seeds are smaller and can path through the digestive system and be spread easier
even a normal size apple might have 50% or more crab DNA in its seed.
summary : volume, distribution, genetics
Many of the "wild" crabs (or apples) in northern Pa. and also in N.Y. are "bushier" in appearance and have multiple trunks. Even some of the commercially-sold crabs for pollination and landscape use are bushier in their growth habits.Do crabs tend to have more of a ‘bushy’ type growth with closer limb structure?
Turkeys, grouse (partridge), foxes, coons, deer, bears all can eat and pass apple seeds. Whether those seeds are viable after going through their guts ....... I don't know. Probably some are. If deer and bears (especially) can pass whole kernels of corn, I'd think apple or crab seeds would pass easily.Do deer spread apple seeds? Or as it passes through them, does it destroy the seeds?
I wonder if some of it is that birds eat the crabs, and spread the seeds, but full sized apples birds cant eat as easily to spread the seeds. So do the apple seeds spread from bear and deer?
I know for a fact that tomato seeds can pass through a human digestive system and be viable.Turkeys, grouse (partridge), foxes, coons, deer, bears all can eat and pass apple seeds. Whether those seeds are viable after going through their guts ....... I don't know. Probably some are. If deer and bears (especially) can pass whole kernels of corn, I'd think apple or crab seeds would pass easily.
Tend to agree that likely more related to local gene pool and what the surrounding area has available. I see very few if any ornamental crabs or crabs in general when looking at the old home farm yards are/were located. Think they were more practical and planted full size apple trees and for the pretty stuff to look at it was mainly some type of flowers and lilac bushes. Lots of lilacs on old farmsteads around here and some have also escaped to the ditches.My NW WI area tends to have wild full sized apples, which is the opposite of the wild crabapples I see in SE MN. I don't think there were any native wild crabapples in that area of NW WI, so it seems likely the initial settlers planted full sized apples for food and the apple/apple pollination made seedlings that were full sized apples. That's my theory any way. It is very easy to drive around and find old abandoned farm sites and most of them have an ancient apple tree or two still holding on. Lots of random ditch apple trees as well that are full sized.
In SE MN there are tons of wild crabapples, but wild full sized apples are rare. Some of the wild crabapples have desirable drop times and they are definitely worth keeping, but many are better for birds than deer.
Do deer spread apple seeds? Or as it passes through them, does it destroy the seeds?
My college wildlife bio professor told us back in the 90's that wild apple seeds HAD TO pass through the gut of a deer before they germinated. That the stomach acid changed the seed chemically so that it would only germinate when a deer walked somewhere else and pooped out the seed in a little pile of fertilizer...thus reducing competition between the parent and its offspring.
I don't believe this is absolutely true though. But yes, apple seeds can survive the trip through a deer's stomach. Whether it's obligatory for germination I do not know.
I have years of proof and decades of proof from my wife’s grandma that apple seeds don’t need to pass through deer to germinate, at least in northern climates where we have winter.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yes, I do not believe this to be true...completely, though there might be some partial truth and maybe the science wasn't clearly understood. I can see how an apple seed in a pile of deer pellets might have an advantage and grow more vigorously in its own little pile of fertilizer.
Clearly a lot of guys here are growing apples from seed...so no deer required.
Very few folks planting fruit trees as compared to generations past almost all old farm stead’s had some fruit trees very few new homes get fruit trees planted in the yard.I think to a degree its even simpler than the deer poo theory, at least around here. We have a number of local orchards and historically every farm had an orchard or a few trees. Apples that drop on a farmstead - in the past anyways were raked up and tossed over the fence as a kind of livestock feed. Cows ate them and in the "back" end little cow pies in the pasture afforded a nice little fertile growing spot. Most of the wild apples and crabs you see around here are in old pastures. Its unfortunate but with the collapse of the family farms these trees will be lost over time and less and less common.