Verifying TSI work was done right

[Bszweda]

Hi all,

Looking for some opinions… I paid a habitat management company to come out and perform TSI( specifically for wildlife) on eight acres . They charged me 2600 dollars. A crew of 6 showed up for one day, and performed the work. I just walk the 8 acres and Iam underwhelmed with the work they performed. They mainly cut downlike wrist size trees down. In my mind I was expecting them to cut larger trees to get more sun onto the floor. Iam trying to figure out if the people I hired performed a good job and it’s just my ignorance on the subject.

Thanks,
Brad

 

[SwampCat]

They cut the trees and did not inject them? I would be worried they will sprout back. May be what you want. I had a hack n squirt contract done last year on 36 acres. They did everything smaller than six inches - which amounted to 1200 stems per acre out of the total 1400 stems per acre. It took six guys six days to do it at $150 per acre.

 

[sandbur]

Hi all,

Looking for some opinions… I paid a habitat management company to come out and perform TSI( specifically for wildlife) on eight acres . They charged me 2600 dollars. A crew of 6 showed up for one day, and performed the work. I just walk the 8 acres and Iam underwhelmed with the work they performed. They mainly cut downlike wrist size trees down. In my mind I was expecting them to cut larger trees to get more sun onto the floor. Iam trying to figure out if the people I hired performed a good job and it’s just my ignorance on the subject.

Thanks,
Brad

I suspect there was not adequate communication between you and the manager or crew chief.

I hired a consulting forester for a logging project. He walked the property twice with me and I was satisfied with what was done and what was left alone.

Your management for wildlife will vary depending on what you are managing for and what surrounding properties offer.


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[Natty Bumppo]

Hi all,

Looking for some opinions… I paid a habitat management company to come out and perform TSI( specifically for wildlife) on eight acres . They charged me 2600 dollars. A crew of 6 showed up for one day, and performed the work. I just walk the 8 acres and Iam underwhelmed with the work they performed. They mainly cut downlike wrist size trees down. In my mind I was expecting them to cut larger trees to get more sun onto the floor. Iam trying to figure out if the people I hired performed a good job and it’s just my ignorance on the subject.

Thanks,
Brad

Hey Brad...that's too bad. I agree with sandbur. I read your post and I was left wondering how that kind of communication could have gone wrong. For that kind of money I would have thought a contract of some kind would have been drawn up with clear expectations of what work was to be done. You even said "in my mind I was expecting...". Did they know that? Was it clearly communicated? If so, then yes, it's on them.

 

[Bill]

Take some pictures. Sounds like it was done lightly to me. When we go in to add sunlight to the forest floor on my place you look back and swear a bomb went off.

 

[Bill]

But. There’s alway a but. But if my forester friend was doing TSI work he would have opened up timber trees. So he would have targeted small stuff that was to close to a tree that might make good timber when my son is my age now.

TSI means different things to different people. Some like board feet, I like antler inches….

 

[homerj1]

TSI means different things to different people. Some like board feet, I like antler inches….

It's been my experience that when most people talk about TSI, they're talking about increasing board feet not inches of antler. Most foresters would be aghast at what many deer managers do to trees.

 

[Bill]

It's been my experience that when most people talk about TSI, they're talking about increasing board feet not inches of antler. Most foresters would be aghast at what many deer managers do to trees.

Yep. The kid from NRCS that did a cruise of my place years ago said I was lucky to be alive. Apparently no one ever told him if you try to hinge cut a 20 inch dia oak you should run the other way after the first loud pop noise….

My favorite story is when my neighbor saw a truck parked along my woods. He waited. When the guy came out with his radio collared dog he was half dressed and covered in sweat. Neighbor asked what he was doing. His reply was getting my dog, but some asshole cut down every tree in there…….

 

[Bszweda]

I’ll take some pictures. Yeah I called them and I guess they spent 50% of there time trying to treat the invasives. The contract was to kill 90 % of the invasive. Then the FSI to leave 50% as mineral stumps, and reduce oak competition. Though I don’t even think they got the (90% kill rate ) though I’ll have to wait and see. They also said they griddle some trees. So hopefully it will turn out better than my first impression. I pretty much let them decide on the fsi, with the fsi being stressed for deer as they were the experts. In hind sight I needed to add a line item in contract to cut 50% of standing timber.

 

[sandbur]

I’ll take some pictures. Yeah I called them and I guess they spent 50% of there time trying to treat the invasives. The contract was to kill 90 % of the invasive. Then the FSI to leave 50% as mineral stumps, and reduce oak competition. Though I don’t even think they got the (90% kill rate ) though I’ll have to wait and see. They also said they griddle some trees. So hopefully it will turn out better than my first impression. I pretty much let them decide on the fsi, with the fsi being stressed for deer as they were the experts. In hind sight I needed to add a line item in contract to cut 50% of standing timber.

Two honest questions. What are mineral stumps?

What is the difference between TSI and FSI?


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[sandbur]

Yep. The kid from NRCS that did a cruise of my place years ago said I was lucky to be alive. Apparently no one ever told him if you try to hinge cut a 20 inch dia oak you should run the other way after the first loud pop noise….

My favorite story is when my neighbor saw a truck parked along my woods. He waited. When the guy came out with his radio collared dog he was half dressed and covered in sweat. Neighbor asked what he was doing. His reply was getting my dog, but some asshole cut down every tree in there…….

Coyote hunters with dogs always want to hunt my place. I try to restrict access, however state law says that if they want to go in there to catch their dogs, I can not deny access.

One guy went in there and eventually came out and said there was no way to catch his dog as it was so dang thick!


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[Bszweda]

Some pics

 

[Bszweda]

Some more

 

[homerj1]

^^^I'm not seeing a full tank of saw gas being used in those pics.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

What are mineral stumps?

The deer habitat industry's buzz word for tree stumps that sprout after being cut because those sprouts are higher in minerals due to the large established root structure feeding them.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

My favorite story is when my neighbor saw a truck parked along my woods. He waited. When the guy came out with his radio collared dog he was half dressed and covered in sweat. Neighbor asked what he was doing. His reply was getting my dog, but some asshole cut down every tree in there…….

That is hilarious!

None of my neighbors are to up on habitat management and they have to be wondering what the hell is this new guy doing with all that cutting and letting trees just lay there.

 

[hesseu]

Be curious to know how many they girdled and / or H&S.

Here's some pics of different TSI areas on our property. You'll notice a few mini clear cuts approx 1 acre in size each. "Temporary forest openings"

 

[Bszweda]

I walked it and they griddled two trees one honey locust and one sugar maple.

 

[Tree Spud]

Hi all,

Looking for some opinions… I paid a habitat management company to come out and perform TSI( specifically for wildlife) on eight acres . They charged me 2600 dollars. A crew of 6 showed up for one day, and performed the work. I just walk the 8 acres and Iam underwhelmed with the work they performed. They mainly cut downlike wrist size trees down. In my mind I was expecting them to cut larger trees to get more sun onto the floor. Iam trying to figure out if the people I hired performed a good job and it’s just my ignorance on the subject.

Thanks,
Brad

What was in your contract? For $2600, you should have had a list of services detailed, type & size of trees to be cut, type of herbicide to be used, and even a map showing areas of focus, how trees to be laid to promote blocking & travel lanes, trees you wanted saved should have marked, etc.

Just looking at your pictures, it looks like you could have accomplished the same thing or more in a couple of Saturdays with a chain saw.

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

I don't think your crew of 4 guys were working very hard. If there were 2 guys running saws and 2 guys walking behind them to spray the stumps I would have expected more. If you want to hold more deer, don't be afraid to cut down some large trees as well. I like to drop any lower value elms, boxelder along with any large trees that are competing with nice oaks.