Vacuum Sealing Machines

[yoderjac]

Many years ago, soon after I started processing my own deer, I started to acquire processing tools. My first vacuum seal machine was one of the inexpensive, bag outside the machine, models. There were several things I didn't like about this design and the quality of the first unit I got. The design requires the use of special bags that have channels in them. While the machines are inexpensive, the bags are not. The cost is negligible for occasional use. The biggest problem with this design is liquid. Any liquid gets sucked to the mouth of the bag preventing a good seal. The low end unit I original got did not last long. It wasn't long before it could not suck out enough air.

As I started processing more deer each year, we bought a high end model of the same design. It lasted about 3 times as long, but had all the same design issues. We tried putting paper towels between the meat and the mouth of the bag. It worked ok, but was a slow PITA. Eventually, we learn to put the meat in the freezer directly on trays for a couple hours. We would not let it freeze, but aa it got close, the moisture evaporated. This worked pretty well, but we still had the expensive bag issue. When that unit died, I decided to step up to a low end chamber model.

I got a VP112 which is the lowest end chamber model I could find. Chamber models work completely differently. The entire bag goes inside a chamber in the machine. The machine evacuates the air from the entire chamber, both inside and outside the bag. The machine then seals the bag before letting air back into the chamber. When it does, the bag is sucked into the meat as the pressure outside the bag is much greater than the pressure inside it. Because of the way it works, liquid is not sucked out the bag opening. In fact, you can even vacuum seal soup with this type of machine.

The VP112 worked pretty well at first. It worked as advertised. The bags are a fraction of the cost of channel bags. It also sped up the process. It took just as long to evacuate the chamber as it took the external bag models to evacuate a bag. However, the sealing bar is 12" so we could seal two 6" wide bags at once. It wasn't long before the plastic lid cracked. It simply could not handle the pressure. I was able to use plastic epoxy to fix the crack and get it working again. We ordered a new lid, but just left it sit in the box since it was working fine. After several years, we noticed in the last year or so that it just wasn't evacuating enough air and we were getting a little freezer burn. Also, I noticed that I had to increase the seal time and occasionally I would have to reseal bags.

So, we ordered a new seal bar to see if that was the issue. We processed a deer the other day. I replaced the seal bar and tested the unit to make sure there was not a leak on the external port. (This unit has an external port that you can use to vacuum special canisters but we rarely use that). It was clearly the chamber that was leaking. I presumed it was the lid not sealing with the rubber gasket around the chamber. So, I installed the new lid. No luck. I noticed the new lid said VP112S. I looked it up on the internet and found that because of the lid cracking and leaks, they redesigned the VP112 to VP112S shortly after we bought the machine. I compared the lids and although the both fit in general, the new lid had thicker plastic. I can only assume that they increased the width of the rubber gasket on the redesign, because I could not get a seal with the new lid. I went back to the old lid. I could eventually get enough seal, but no matter how much I set the seal time for, the motor could simply not evacuate the chamber enough. It worked, but no better than it had been.

Well, I'm getting too old for this aggravation. So, I decided to order a commercial grade unit. They are expensive, but life is short.

I ordered a VP321. The general design is the same, but there are several differences. First, it has 1.5 hp oil filled pump vs. the dry piston pump on the 112. It has two 17 1/4" double wire seal bars vs. the 12" single wire seal bar on the 112. The cycle time is 20-40 sec vs 30-60 sec for the 112. The lid design is completely different. I've seen no reports of lid or sealing issues with this commercial model. Finally, this beast is 200 lbs vs the 50 lb 112. At least on paper, this should significantly reduce our processing time. The second and larger seal bar should cut our time at least in half plus any gains from the shorter cycle time.

When the unit arrives and I get it setup I'll take some pics and report back. Then, presuming I shoot another deer, I'll report after first use.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[yoderjac]

Well, just a quick update. The truck arrived on Wednesday with a lift gate. I figured I'd back my pickup to it and lower the gate to the tailgate and just slide it in. The driver said, "we don't even have to lower the gate. You and I can just slide it in." That should have been my first clue that something was wrong. The box was strapped to a small pallet. I didn't think anything of it. On Thursday night after our Thanksgiving festivities, I headed to the retirement property barn. When I got there, I just lifted my old VP112 off the cart. It is only 40 lbs. I cut open the box, which should have been my second clue, something was wrong, but I was still clueless. I wheeled he cart up to the tailgate and was amazed at how easy it was to slide the new Vacuum Sealer on to the cart.

Something didn't look right...I opened the lid and there was only one seal bar. I then took a close look at the unit, it was a VP210, not a VP321. Now all the pieces came together. The VP210 is only 72 lbs versus the 220 lb VP321 unit that I was expecting. I took a look at the box, and it clearly said VP210 on it. I should have caught it when the truck arrived! I sent an email off to WebsetaurantStore where I bought it. It was drop shipped from Ary. I have not yet heard back but it is the holiday weekend. I'll call customer service on Monday if they have not responded by then.

Well, I had a deer to butcher, so I used the one they sent for it. I then boxed it back up. I plan to return it when they send the correct unit.

So, here is my impressions of the VP210.

It is clearly a big step up from the old VP112 I have. The chamber size is about the same, but the unit is a much better design. It still has a dry motor, but it is much quieter than the VP112. It does not have the external port for canisters, but we rarely used that feature of the VP112. With the VP112, I had to put weight on the lid, just at the right place to get the vacuum to start. No such issues with the VP210. It has no start button like the VP112. Instead, as soon as you close the lid, the unit starts evacuating the camber. The chamber is roughly the same size. This unit only has one seal bar that is about 12" like the VP112, but it has two seal wires for a double seal unlike the VP112.

The controls are similar to the VP112 but it also has a cooling time control. The vacuum time defaulted to 60 seconds. I presume that was for liquids where filler plates are not used because the unit pegged the pressure needle in a fraction of that time with both plates in the machine. I turned it down to about half. The seal time defaulted to 1.2 seconds which was plenty. The old VP112 default seal time was 5 seconds and I often had to set it as high a 8 seconds to get a good seal. I found this unit much faster and much easier to use than the VP112.

The sausage maker web site still has the VP112 listed for $725.99. Amazon says it is unavailable. It has the VP210 listed for $899 with free shipping. At that price difference, I'd highly recommend the VP210 over the VP112.

Having said that, I have only used the VP210 one time for processing this deer. I don't know how it will hold up over time, but it can't be any worse than the VP112 was from that perspective. Keep in mind that both use dry motors which could be a long term limitation. That is one reason I decided to go with the more expensive VP321. It has an oil filled motor. It also has two 17" seal bars versus the single 12" seal bar of the VP210 which cuts the time package the meat at least in half if not more. Given the cost difference between the VP210 and VP321

The do make a VP215 model that appears to be the same as the VP210 except that it uses an oil filled pump. Amazon show it for $999 with free delivery. If you are concerned with longevity, the extra $100 may be worth it for the VP215. Both the 210 and 215 have 1/4 hp pumps vs the 1.5 hp pump on the VP321 that I ordered.

I'll end this post by saying that for most folks who are only processing a deer or two a year, the inexpensive non-chamber vacuum sealer type units that use the expensive channel bags are probably a better bet even with the challenges of making sure the meat is dry. These chamber type vacuum seal type machines are probably more for the folks who are processing a larger number of deer each year or who butcher other animals or intend to freeze vegetables or soups or have additional uses.

When I finally get the VP321, I'll update this thread.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[GMan5465]

I have the VP215. Bought it a few years ago. It has an oil pump. It’s been a great machine. Bags are cheap and it’s pretty quiet. Haven’t had any problems as of yet. I believe the sealing bar is 10.25 inches. A larger size bar would be nice so we could seal two bags at the same time (side by side).

We use it for processing game. We also use it for freezing other items. For instance, we will make a large pot of chili and then seal the rest in bags. Once sealed, you can freeze them in the shape you want. We flatten into rectangles and then can stack them easily in the freezer. Smoke a few
Pork shoulders for pulled pork, freeze them. Make some hot dish (yep, Minnesota), freeze them. When it comes times to head to the hunting land, grab the meals you want. Heat them in a microwave or boil in water, good to go.

Also, seal the meat and spices for sous vide cooking.

Machine price tag is high but bags are much cheaper.

Highly recommended.

 

[rocksnstumps]

My brother does a lot of offshore fishing from OBX and uses a vp215 also. Like others mention, a heavy sucker and has a dedicated cart for it.

He buys his bags from here. They end up being about 3 cents apiece:

Commercial Supplies & Equipment from WebstaurantStore

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[yoderjac]

I emailed WebstaruantStore on Thursday night, but I didn't expect to hear much with the holiday weekend. So, Monday morning I called their customer service number. I wasn't on hold too long. They had received the email and said they had replied asking for pictures, but I never received their reply. They resent it and I got it. I sent them the pictures Monday afternoon. This morning I got an email that said they will reach out to the manufacturer (drop shipped) and will get back to me by 12/3. Seems like a pretty long delay to me as once they get things straightened out and get it shipped, it will likely be another week until I receive it.

I'll keep this thread updated as I hear more.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[yoderjac]

This is just a quick update on dealing with WebsturantStore when things go wrong. I started with an email on Thanksgiving to tell them about the problem. I followed it up the following week with a phone call. Evidently their reply email never made it. After that I had several email exchanges with them. The vendor, Ary, ships freight and this was drop shipped. I assumed I'd have a 4 hour delivery window when I ordered it and I'd take off one morning or afternoon for delivery. Well, the first unit was shipped using UPS freight (Now called PRO something). I had to argue with the local terminal for 20 minutes and talk to a supervisor before I could get the window down to noon to 7 pm. There was no problem with the delivery except it was the wrong unit that I did not discover until later.

WebsturantStore wanted me re-open the box after I had packed it up and take pictures of the unit as well as the box which I did. The evidently needed that to convince ARY they shipped the wrong unit. Then, they wanted me to strap it back to the pallet (I have no metal strapping tool) for shipment. They then wanted me to take another day off to meet the carrier for return. and then another day off to meet the shipper for teh new unit.

I told them I had no ability to restrap the unit to the pallet and that I would not take two days off. I said I would be ok with meeting the carrier to return the old unit the same time I received the new unit. The said no. They used polite language at first in the emails but would not budge. I also offered to leave the unit curbside on any day they chose for return provided they would accept liability from the time I dropped it off until the carrier picked it up. The email language got less polite and they began to threaten to charge me for the wrong unit.

Late Friday afternoon I got a voice mail from Fedex Freight saying to call to schedule a delivery. I called all weekend and started calling at 0730 this morning and the phone just rang. Finally, about 0830, I got an answer. I was off today as I needed to pick up my wife at the airport, but they would not offer delivery the same day as I called. They said they would deliver it tomorrow between 9am and 6 pm. Again, I argued for 10 minutes and talked to a supervisor. The best they could do was to reduce the window to 11am to 6pm. I figured that was the best I could do.

After arranging delivery with FEDEX freight tomorrow, I decided to call customer service at WebsturantStore. This time a young lady answered. She took a few minutes to read the email chain. She was a delight. She completely understood my position and the mistake was on their end I I should not have to take a third day off. She said that she would immediately call Ary and arrange for pickup of the unit tomorrow when the new unit is being delivered. She was unable to get through to a person while I was on hold and told me she would keep trying and follow up with an email. She said that if she could not schedule pickup for tomorrow that she would find a way for me to put it curbside and do pickup without me present.

With in 20 minutes I got an email from her. She had gotten hold of Ary and had the pickup scheduled for tomorrow! I don't know if I just got a hold of a bad or lazy customer service rep initially who was handling the case or if that was typical of WebstaruantStore. Either way, it is looking like I can now see light at the end of the tunnel.

By the way, I've ordered a lot of stuff from them over the years and this is the first problem I've had.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[yoderjac]

I THINK the saga is finally over. I arranged telework today so I could deal with the units. About 6 AM, I got an email from the new customer support lady with a Fedex pickup confirmation number. Sure enough about 1130, a panel truck with a lift gate arrived. It appeared to be the correct unit. The box was not the cardboard retail type box like the unit they previously sent. It was packed in a wooden box on a pallet. The label on the outside of the box had the correct model information on it. I backed my pickup up to the truck and he lowered the gate to meet it. Together we slid the pallet into the truck. It was clearly over 200 lbs as expected. I did verify with the driver that a different truck is coming for the pickup.

I won't open the box until I get it to the retirement property late this week, but it looks like I got the VP321 as ordered.

About 2 PM, a regular Fedex delivery truck showed up with no liftgate. Evidently Ary screwed up again and created the ticket for a regular Fedex ground shipment rather than Fedex Freight. Since the unit was 70 lbs, the driver would not take it (and I don't blame him as I have a bad back and don't wish that on anyone else. He said he would take it if I could load it in the truck. I have a Kubota b2100 with a FEL that I use to mow the lawn and remove snow from the driveway when needed. I told him no problem. I dropped the edge of the box on the truck floor and we slid it into the truck. I then asked the driver for a receipt. He said "We don't do that". I wasn't about to argue with him at this point. I had him stand in the truck with his Fedex jacket on and took a picture that I sent to WebstaurantStore as proof of shipment.

So, I don't know if these screw-ups are happening with WebstaurantStore or Ary, or a combination of both, but it has been a bumpy ride.

The last two posts have just been to let folks know what the process has been like when something goes wrong. Hopefully, the next couple posts to this thread will be more interesting and useful to those who are considering vacuum sealing.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Bill]

After reading all this I may have to try a 215.
I’ve never had a great need for a vacuum sealer. Always wanted one but some friends have cheap models that didn’t impress me.

I’m stepping up my fishing game. It’s always been hard to freeze fish and have it last longer then 2 months or so. It may be worth a shot to see if we can have good fish on New Year’s Day.

 

[MadMadHoosier]

After reading all this I may have to try a 215.
I’ve never had a great need for a vacuum sealer. Always wanted one but some friends have cheap models that didn’t impress me.

I’m stepping up my fishing game. It’s always been hard to freeze fish and have it last longer then 2 months or so. It may be worth a shot to see if we can have good fish on New Year’s Day.

I don't do much fishing, but back in the 80s a guy gave me some fish fillets frozen in old milk cartons filled with water. They kept very well for a year or so, and I later started using a similar method to freeze Florida lobster tails in plastic ziploc containers. As long as the meat is in the middle of the frozen water, and not touching any air gaps in the container, it will keep for a very long time. I thawed some 4 year old lobster (in shell) for muzzleloader weekend, thinking I'd end up throwing it away, but other than trimming a little meat that stuck out of the shell, it smelled and tasted great - and the real tell, nobody got sick.

 

[yoderjac]

After reading all this I may have to try a 215.
I’ve never had a great need for a vacuum sealer. Always wanted one but some friends have cheap models that didn’t impress me.

I’m stepping up my fishing game. It’s always been hard to freeze fish and have it last longer then 2 months or so. It may be worth a shot to see if we can have good fish on New Year’s Day.

If you don't do a lot of it, the 215 is probably a good choice. I only used the 210 for one deer it worked much better than my old 112, but the seal bar is short. I guessed it to be a foot, but someone corrected me in one of the above posts saying it is actually 10". I was barely able to get two of our smallest bags on the bar at once. This means sealing one bag at a time. I found the 210 to be faster at evacuating the chamber than my VP112, but then the lid seal for the VP112 was an issue. The 215 has pretty much the same specs as the 210 except it has an oil filled motor which should last longer.

Unless you do a lot of vacuum sealing, the 321 that I just got is probably not worth the cost. It has a 1 1/2 hp pump compared to the 1/5 hp pump on the 200 series. The chamber is a bit larger, so it needs the biggest motor. With dual 17" seal bars, I should be able to seal 2-4 bags or perhaps more depending on size with single evacuation.

I'm butchering 2 more deer on Saturday, so I'll know more after that.

One more note, fish can be tricky. Depending on the type of fish, it may crush a little bit if too much air is evacuated.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[swat1018]

I have a Cabela's "Commercial grade" sealer. It's not a chamber sealer, but I've used it 20 years. I butcher 8-10 deer a year, and can't imagine needing much more. I only do my steaks in them, all my burger is packed in poly bags with my stuffer. I've also done a few fish with it, Bill. It works fine, but oily saltwater fish only last so long in the freezer, regardless.

 

[Bill]

I'm thinking tuna. not mushy fish but check on the oily.

 

[yoderjac]

I'm thinking tuna. not mushy fish but check on the oily.

Yes, I think steaky fish will work fine.

 

[yoderjac]

I have a Cabela's "Commercial grade" sealer. It's not a chamber sealer, but I've used it 20 years. I butcher 8-10 deer a year, and can't imagine needing much more. I only do my steaks in them, all my burger is packed in poly bags with my stuffer. I've also done a few fish with it, Bill. It works fine, but oily saltwater fish only last so long in the freezer, regardless.

As dissatisfied as I was with the VP112, I can't imagine ever going back to an external channel bag type unit. We vacuum seal the entire deer, steaks, loin, cubes, and ground. We have making roasts. Lately we have been cutting up the ribs and boiling off the meat to make soup stock. We plan to vacuum seal that too. My wife makes a great marinade that we use for venison. One year, we put the marinade in the bags with the steaks. The idea was that we could pull a steak from the freezer, put it in the fridge to thaw and marinate and then cook it. From a vacuum sealing standpoint it worked very well, but my wife thought the steaks were better if the the marinade was fresh. I tend to agree with her but the difference was not big in my opinion. Perhaps it is something about freezing the marinade.

As we retire, my wife plans to vacuum seal and freeze fresh vegetables and stuff from the garden. We will see how that goes.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[yoderjac]

Well, I brought the unit to my retirement property where we butcher tonight. I uncrated it and, with the help of some leavers, was able to get it from the truck bed on the cart by myself. It weighs over 200 lbs. After unwrapping it, the only thing I had to do was fill the pump with oil. It works like a dream. I'll post some pictures and more detail when I get back home where I have unmetered high speed internet.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[yoderjac]

It should get a good workout tomorrow. We've now got 4 deer in the cooler to butcher tomorrow. I'll try to remember to take some pics of it in operation.

 

[yoderjac]

It has been a long couple of days. Last week I took out a new hunter. He shot a young buck on Friday evening and then I shot a deer on Saturday. On Thursday evening this week, I shot a small doe at the pine farm. It took me a couple hours to deal with her. I took her to the retirement property and put her in the cooler with the other two. It is only a reach-in cooler, so it was packed. It was getting late, but I decided to uncrate the VP321.

Here is the open create it came in sitting on my tailgateafter I removed it:

You can see it was very well packaged and delivered on a pallet. The unit is over 200 lbs, so it was not easy to put on the cart by myself. I push the cart up against the pallet, put a board under the unit for some leverage, and slid it back and forth to shimmy it off the crate and onto the cart. It was a perfect fit. It comes with rubber legs on it, but they also sent aluminum legs that you can screw on instead. I kept the rubber legs.

Here is the unit on the cart:

The unit comes with a maintenance kit shown below. The hammer and tape measure are not part of the kit and were just sitting there from the uncrating. It has two extras seal strips, oil, a filler bottle, a replacement filter, double sided tape, fuses, and some other sundry items.

The lid is open and there are no filler plates in the unit yet. My next task was then to fill the pump with oil before you can use the unit.

The above picture is the side of the unit. You remove the plastic cover plates with a screwdriver. These cover plates are likely a new feature as I did not see them mentioned in the manual or on the online video. Once removed, the instructions in the manual and online video are accurate. It took about 1/2 of the bottle of oil they included to fill the pump to the proper level.

Once filled, I was able to plug the unit in and turn it on. I had a few power related issues the first time i used it. I blew a breaker part way through the vacuum process. This 1 1/2 hp pump does draw a lot of amperage. The problem was that the lid was held closed by the suction. We I plugged it into another higher amperage circuit, the unit did not respond. I got nothing on the display and there was no indication of an issue and the lid remained closed. There must be some kind of timed reset inside the unit. While I was trying to figure out the problem and making sure the new outlet had power, I finally heard some clicking inside the unit and the lid popped open. The display lit up. and the unit was ready for use. The takeaway here is that if you have some kind of power issue or glitch when using the unit and it locks up. Just let it sit, reapply power, and wait. It will eventually reset...at least it did in my case.

I spent Friday running around doing errands. Friday afternoon, I decided to sit by the barn with my .30-06 for a couple hours. With only 5 minutes of legal shooting time left a big doe stepped out into the field. I took the shot. I missed the scapula so she did not drop in her tracks. She ran about 80 yards across the field into the brush before she collapsed. I spent the rest of Friday night dressing, skinning, and quartering her. I pretty much had to stuff her into the cooler. I've never had 4 deer in that cooler at once.

We planned to butcher Saturday AM, but initially thought it would be 2 deer. It was now 4 deer. My buddy who had shot his first deer came down to learn how to butcher. We got started about 0730. He had to leave by noon, so we changed our processing order up a bit so I could demonstrate with one deer while he followed along with his. This did slow us up a bit, but he is a cook and was pretty good with a knife.

We had his deer done by noon and the other three were in various stages. I took a picture of the unit with four two pound bags of meat in it.

The unit worked great. The initial setting was for 60 seconds of vacuum, but it was way too much with the filler plates an meat. I cut it to 30 seconds and even that was much longer than needed to get the pressure needle high into the green. I started doing 4 bags at once but found it unnecessary. I could easily stay ahead of my wife filling bags unlike with the VP112 where I was always behind. I eventually found 3 bags worked well. There was less futzing around making sure all 4 bags were on the seal bar properly. When you set one bag on top of another as in the picture, it moves the other bag a bit. With 3 bags, 2 on one side and one on the other, there was little movement. The bags in the picture are 10"x 13" by the way. We have a variety of different sized bags we use.

We took an hour break for lunch. The neighbor boy and his mom came over to help after lunch. It was 7:00 pm before we got the place cleaned up, packed up, and left the retirement place for home. We were too tired to make jerky, so today is jerky making day...well, if I can get my body to start moving again.

All in all, I love the unit so far. It is head and shoulders above the VP112 or VP210 they sent by mistake. I doubt the higher cost will be worth it to most. We processed 9 deer so far this year and we have a few weeks of season left. It is a good fit for us.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[yoderjac]

A little more on my old VP112. Back when I first got it, it worked fine for a while, but it wasn't long before the pressure cracked the lid. We need to finish process deer that year, so I just bought some plastic epoxy to fix the crack. That seemed to work, but after the season I went online and ordered a new lid. It just sat in the box for a couple years when the VP112 seemed to be working with the patched lid, but eventually, It could not seem to get the pressure low enough inside the chamber. The lid was leaking are. So, I decided to install the new lid.

When I unboxed it, I noticed it said VP112S on it but looked the same. When I installed it on the machine, it would not seal at all. When I looked at it closely, it was thicker plastic. I went online and found out they had some may lid problems with the vp112 they had to upgrade the chamber and lid and called it VP112S. That explained why I could not get any seal with the new lid. The rubber gasket on the old chamber was not wide enough to get a seal with the thicker lid.

A couple weeks ago, I decided to install the new lid and put weather stripping on the chamber. It seemed to work except even when the pressure released, opening the lid just lifted the weather stripping. So, eventually, I got some flex glue and glued the weather stripping to the rubber gasket that goes around the chamber. It is now a little more difficult to open the lid as it wants to stick to the weather stripping, but it evacuates the air from the chamber properly.

Here is a picture:

Thanks,

Jack