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Timber value

S.T.Fanatic

5 year old buck +
Just curious if any of you land owners in Minnesota or Wisconsin have done any logging this year and how you came out. I did an online search but it didnt result much. I guess what I would like to do is concentrate on Maple and Hickory trees and only remove oak if it is crowding other oak trees in order to release them to increase mast production. We have an abundance of mature maple with park like under story going on. I guess thats what happens when a property gets logged and you just let nature run its course.
 
I talked to a logger last week to come out and clear a few acres, mostly maple, and popple, he told me prices have dropped and it wouldnt be worth his time, and I would be better off cutting it, and using it, or selling it as firewood.
 
Good to know, Thanks. I wonder how many trees it would take to be "worth their time" I have also thought about taking them down myself. There is a pallet mill not far from the farm but I just get the answering machine when I call. Im not even sure if its still operational. I guess I'll just have to leave a message and see.
 
Big difference in price (at least here) between "soft" maple (red and silver maple) and "hard" maple (sugar maple). When I had mine done here - top level timber was walnut, oak and cherry, mid value was hard maple, tulip poplar, hickory, low value was soft maple, cottonwood, sycamore.

Keep in mind IF the maple you have IS hard maple - it can become too mature....hard maple is valued for the sap wood (which is lighter in color) and NOT the heart wood which is much darker. As such there is a magic "size range" that loggers look for in that species is what I have found.

I appreciate your wanting to get good $ for your timber, but something I came to terms with was...."am I willing to wait 5 years to log and put my logging on hold for better prices?" I wasn't. My logging really needed to be done and the money was just icing on the cake....we all like a lot of icing, but sometimes you just have to bite the bullet. Logging was one of the best habitat improvements I have done.

Get a forester or the like to create an inventory (species and board feet) of the trees you want to remove and have them sent out for bid. The forester should also know if prices are "up", "down" or "otherwise" on certain species as well. Also consider any damaged trees that mother nature will bring down if you don't.

I realize I am not in the area you wanted info from, but the type of maple can have a serious impact as to what you can get price wise.
 
I would contact a forester and have him come look at your place. He can then put out bids for loggers. Depending on the size I'd imagine you'd get some good interest. How many acres are you talking?
 
Your tree age and health is an important factor.Many guys around me waited to harvest their poplar trees only to loose up to 30% of them to age, wind or disease. They could have been 5 to 10 years into a new forest if they would have harvested earlier.
 
I had mine logged two years ago in northern WI. I feel I got pretty good money for the my maple. Most of it was on the smaller side and was used for pulp. I was told it was what they use for making colored paper. I saw a add somewhere recently from a timber buyer that was paying a premium for maple. I second getting a forester. I don't think I could of found somebody to log mine without him, or at least not get ripped off big time and have my woods destroyed.
 
I would like to have a forester walk my land to help me come up with a forestry plan as I’m a novice on this. Has anyone used the DNR forester for this? My only fear is that being from the DNR they might find some endangered thingy or not like something I did on my land and the next thing you know I have the wrath of the DNR coming down on me. Is it better to chuck out a little money and have a private forester do this?
 
Here is my take on DNR versus private forester. My land is in the general area that has populations of the Karner blue butterfly. It is a federally protected species. When I first bought it 26 years ago and was low on extra funds, I did have a DNR forester come out. He recommended that I cut a 10 acre area of young frazier firs as the Karners can not fly through wooded areas. This is now one of the best sanctuary and bedding areas on the land. Next, he said I should plant lupin to encourage the Karner blues to use my land. Lupin is the only plant they use and need. Said no thanks to that idea. He had his agenda and wanted me to buy into it. Sure his services were free. As the old saying goes, "You get what you pay for".
Since that first visit, I have never used the DNR again. I have not nor will ever see a Karner blue butterfly on my land. I will not do anything that encourages this pale blue butterfly to visit my land. Caught an old hippie neighbor who has an easement through my land planting lupin on the easement. Told the lady her easement rights are for ingress and egress only. The land belongs to me. If she wants to plant lupin on her land, fine by me. I destroyed those seedings on the spot and was not nice about it.
Spend the money for a private forester.
 
Heres what I know in Central WI. Use a private forester. Many available, and I'd talk to 3 or 4 before pulling the trigger. Most of the paper companies have them and will do an evaluation for free. Other private foresters charge a small fee. Species of trees really won't matter until your talking about saw logs. Mixed northern hardwood pulp (maple, ash, hickory, birch etc)should produce about $35/cord +\-. Popple and basswood less. In a clear cut situation expect $800-$1200/acre. Less than that in a select harvest. Expect to split the price of saw logs with the logger 50/50. Price is wildly variable depending on species, grading quality and what any particular mill is looking for. My experience is that under 40 acres you will have to look hard to find someone to cut. Be prepared to pay them to get there, it's expensive to move equipment. For example, recently I had a client with 6 acres of hardwood, clear cut for food plots. In total produced $6800 in revenue to him. Paid the logger $1900 of that to move his equipment in and out. Cost an additional $12,000 in dozer/excavator work to create a new road and stump and clear the food plots. I agree that as a private landowner, you should cut when you need to cut and not try to play the price market. You will never make enough money on your timber to make an appreciable improvement in your land investment unless you are specifically managing large (1000+ acre tracts) specifically for timber. On the other hand, the habitat improvements that logging can provide will improve your long term value significantly. Think about looking at hunting land, are you looking at the merchantable trees or are you looking at how many deer the land can hold, the availability to plant food plots and the overall quality of bucks? I'd argue the latter and that's what drives hunting land prices.
 
I would like to have a forester walk my land to help me come up with a forestry plan as I’m a novice on this. Has anyone used the DNR forester for this? My only fear is that being from the DNR they might find some endangered thingy or not like something I did on my land and the next thing you know I have the wrath of the DNR coming down on me. Is it better to chuck out a little money and have a private forester do this?
I had both come out to my land. They both did a great job of what trees they suggest cutting, when, why, etc. To my surprise both of their management plans were very similar. I was thinking about putting my land into MFL. They way I understood it was the DNR does not write the MFL plans anymore so I would have to hire a private forester anyway.The DNR foresters I think are more of advisors on how to maintain a healthy forest. They won't mark trees or find a logger for you. I wanted to do the first cutting how I wanted and see how it turned out before I put it into the MFL program for 25 years. It turned out great. My forester is a DNR certified plan writer for the MFL plans and now that it is in the program he is also in charge of suggesting when and what the next cutting will be done, and make sure they are done right.
 
I would hire a private forester. We tried the DNR one and it was a waste of time. Had ours logged I think 3 years ago, but mostly pine so I can't help on the maple prices. I have cut a lot of mature maples myself and left them lay(hinge cut) just to open up the canopy. They block a heck of a lot of sunlight.
 
Have a forester come out and walk your property with you. Tell him what you are after, $, wildlife management or whatever you are shooting for. If you are focusing on deer or wildlife management try to find one who has an interest in that or has good references from people who used him for that type of timber sale. He will tell you what you have and the range where the bids will probably come in at if he puts it out for bid for you. They know what the market value of the timber is and what logging companies are paying on any given day, it is his job. I just sold 60 acres of timber about 2 months ago and the bids were right in the range he said they would be.You will learn something about your property too, I have every time I have walked a property with a forester.
 
There all hard maple. Not sure on the exact accerage of the timber. Id say its close to 100 acres but not over. There is however two 20 acre land locked chunks that the logging companies would log at the same time provided the land owner wants to have it done.
 
There all hard maple. Not sure on the exact accerage of the timber. Id say its close to 100 acres but not over. There is however two 20 acre land locked chunks that the logging companies would log at the same time provided the land owner wants to have it done.
I would think that it wouldn't be to hard to get someone to log 100-120 acres. I had a hard time getting bids cutting 50 of my 80 acres. How close the land is to a mill is also important on how much and the demand for the timber. A forester will know that and should also tell you where to haul your timber for the best price.
 
Just make sure who ever you have come out and look - make sure they understand what it is YOU want. A good forester will/can do that....sometimes the DNR folks get tunnel vision. Heck if you know some local guys that share your same passion for habitat...have them come over and offer a second opinion as well. May cost you a few beers or so, but it may be worth it!
 
Totally agree with J-bird ^^^^ on getting the forester / loggers to do what YOU want. A guy we had look at ours wanted to strip everything and grind all tops into chips that he could sell for himself. We didn't want all the tops ground up. We wanted most of the tops left for seedling protection and he wouldn't hear of it. He got the axe. We went with another forester who laid out a plan for our goals of timber management for the future, and also wildlife cover and browse. Give several foresters a test-drive in the woods.
 
At 100-120 acres, you've got a decent sized job, you should find interest in that amount. That will take any logger/trucking operation a solid 6 weeks or more to cut depending on the size of the crew. A couple things that might help you understand your timber value and give you some language to understand with a forester (this is info that was shared with me by a forestry consultant we work with):

1. Tress are measured in terms of diameter at breast height (dbh), which is 4 1/2 feet off the ground. Don't look at your tree size "on the stump". A LOT of people think they have saw timber, when in fact alot of it is pulp or slightly larger which goes for pallets, poles etc.

Pulpwood: 6-9” DBH. Pulpwood trees are chipped into small pieces, chemically treated, and made into paper. Pulpwood is measured in tons or standard cords
Sawtimber: 14”+ DBH. Trees are cut into lumber. Waste material is converted into chips for fuel or paper production. Sawtimber is measured in tons or board feet. Value is heavily dependent on tree quality.
Veneer: 16”+ DBH. By means of a large lathe, the tree is converted into continuous sheets of thin wood. This is used in the manufacture of plywood and furniture, depending on the type of tree. Veneer is measured in tons or board feet. Value is heavily dependent on tree quality.

2. You can figure a good select cut will produce roughly 10 cords/acre
3. You will normally see pricing either in tons or cords

There are some standard conversion factors for products. Here are a few commonly used equivalents:
Pine Pulpwood
5350 pounds = 1 cord*
2.675 tons = 1 cord
Mixed Hardwood Pulpwood
5800 pounds = 1 cord*
2.90 tons = 1 cordPine Sawtimber
1000 board feet = 2.8 cords
7.50-7.75 tons = 1000 board ftHardwood Sawtimber
1000 board feet = 3 cords

An 18-wheel truck/trailer can haul about 25 tons of timber. This is the equivalent of about 9.3 standard cords of pine pulpwood. If the load is sawtimber or veneer size, the truck can haul about 3.3 thousand board feet.

Good luck!
 
I would think that it wouldn't be to hard to get someone to log 100-120 acres. I had a hard time getting bids cutting 50 of my 80 acres. How close the land is to a mill is also important on how much and the demand for the timber. A forester will know that and should also tell you where to haul your timber for the best price.

100-120 acres in most areas is AT LEAST the average sized parcel. If you can't get interest logging 100-120 acres of hardwoods what can you get interest on???
 
100-120 acres in most areas is AT LEAST the average sized parcel. If you can't get interest logging 100-120 acres of hardwoods what can you get interest on???
I know, I just don't understand it. The first time my forester put out a bid, I didn't get one single bid. The logger I did except a bid from only had two pieces of equipment. So I don't want to hear any excuses of how expensive it is to move in equipment and they can't do smaller jobs. I work for a excavating company and our job is charged $500 a move and that is for way bigger machines. The loggers were on my land cutting for over a month and I think that was almost everyday. I went up on a Sunday and they were working. I would think there would be a huge nitch for loggers on smaller pieces like mine. I thought they would just bid a little lower for a smaller piece, but no, I could even get a bid. My friend wanted his 30 acres logged and nobody would do it. He was even considering to try to get somebody to do it for free. I have to say it is REALLY hard to get anyone to do any work around the area.0101161312_Burst01.jpg0103161113.jpg
 
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