Switchgrass questions

[R179P]

Looking for some advice on planting switchgrass. I purchased a property late in 2019 and didn't get a chance to do anything that fall. I had 5 acres that I wanted to put into switchgrass for screening. Spring 2020, I attempted to frost seed in March and spray with simazine. At spring green up I hit it with Gly. The results were no switchgrass and the area was taken over by invasive weeds. I believe that my problem was without treating the weeds in fall, I had very little seed to soil contact when I frost seeded in March.

So here goes round 2. I sprayed yesterday with gly and 2,4-d mostly because I had it leftover and thought it wouldn't hurt. Should I have the soil turned over to get good seed to soil contact and try again with simazine as I did previously? Should I skip the broadcasting and have someone drill it late this fall? 5-8 pounds per acre seem about right? All CIR or mix in Kanlow? If I should go the drill route, stick with the simazine and later gly? Thanks for the help.

 

[Bill]

Don’t disk. I think you are on the right track now. Just frost seed earlier. The more the ground freezes and thaws the more the seed gets sucked into the ground. I always frost seed switch in January down in M.O.

I really like broadcasting into snow because you can see seed coverage.

 

[DiSc0Rd]

Don’t disk. I think you are on the right track now. Just frost seed earlier. The more the ground freezes and thaws the more the seed gets sucked into the ground. I always frost seed switch in January down in M.O.

I really like broadcasting into snow because you can see seed coverage.

what are you putting down in Jan? i need to lime again next spring or possibly Jan but what plant are you putting down? that is to early for buckwheat is it not?

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

what are you putting down in Jan? i need to lime again next spring or possibly Jan but what plant are you putting down? that is to early for buckwheat is it not?

The title says it all.

 

[Bill]

what are you putting down in Jan? i need to lime again next spring or possibly Jan but what plant are you putting down? that is to early for buckwheat is it not?

switchgrass. It needs to stratify (freeze and thaw several times) to help break down the hard seed shell so it can germinate in the spring. The freeze and thaw process also caused the ground to heave which pulls the seed into the dirt giving it soil contact.

 

[Rit]

November is a really good time to get the seed out. I have had two really good stands both broadcast in November. It gets the fall rain, plus the start of the freeze thaw cycles. Not to mention a bunch of time to work down into the soil. If I could reseed my fields I would incorporate a lot more Kanlow. Most of my Kanlow is 7-8’ tall in year 3. All of my CIR is 6’ tall.

 

[Rit]

The Sorghum in the background is going on 12’ tall.

 

[Rit]

I would start digging around for a farmer friend or someone to get you some Atrazine. Admittedly I don’t think the legal limits work that well but in combination with that Simazine, and gly you can have a 5’ tall stand the first year. Foxtail was a big nemesis for me but a timely spray in year two ended that problem.

 

[Bill]

Paul Knox always said use twice the amount of atrazine as the label calls for. Reason being it’s not like a corn crop where you’ll be adding more next year. It’s a one and done thing.

 

[DiSc0Rd]

View attachment 31832View attachment 31833
The Sorghum in the background is going on 12’ tall.

@Rit that looks like sandy ground. That's what I'm dealing with now. Ph at 4.8 now and OM under 1% got lime down last month wanting to try sorghum next year

 

[BuckSutherland]

My switchgrass failed this spring too just like the original poster described. I sprayed a few times this summer to kill off the areas I wanna grow switch. I even raked the areas out with a lawn rake so I am pretty well down to bare dirt. A few spots I tried to burn and that didnt work too well. My concern is that leaves from the trees are going to cover my bare soil before I spread my switch. I thought about spreading my seed the first week of October, but I think the leave might fall by then and it might be too early to seed. Not really sure what to do. My ground would be frozen solid by the time rifle season ends in mid November. I dont want to be all over the property right before hunting either. I really want this switch to work.


I am planning on 3 different piece of switch. 2 of them are divided by a little piece of clover that kind of funnels them the direction I want them to move. The other kinda sits by itself so the doe groups can social distance from each other. All of my switch should have a nice ring of conifer cover around the edge of it, and some thick browse nearby.

 

[Rit]

@Rit that looks like sandy ground. That's what I'm dealing with now. Ph at 4.8 now and OM under 1% got lime down last month wanting to try sorghum next year

Quite the opposite. Heavy clay on Limestone outcroppings. I can’t find PH below 6.5 and never added a drop of lime.

 

[DiSc0Rd]

@Rit that looks like sandy ground. That's what I'm dealing with now. Ph at 4.8 now and OM under 1% got lime down last month wanting to try sorghum next year

Quite the opposite. Heavy clay on Limestone outcroppings. I can’t find PH below 6.5 and never added a drop of lime.

Fine, I'm taking my ball and going home

 

[Rit]

My switchgrass failed this spring too just like the original poster described. I sprayed a few times this summer to kill off the areas I wanna grow switch. I even raked the areas out with a lawn rake so I am pretty well down to bare dirt. A few spots I tried to burn and that didnt work too well. My concern is that leaves from the trees are going to cover my bare soil before I spread my switch. I thought about spreading my seed the first week of October, but I think the leave might fall by then and it might be too early to seed. Not really sure what to do. My ground would be frozen solid by the time rifle season ends in mid November. I dont want to be all over the property right before hunting either. I really want this switch to work.


I am planning on 3 different piece of switch. 2 of them are divided by a little piece of clover that kind of funnels them the direction I want them to move. The other kinda sits by itself so the doe groups can social distance from each other. All of my switch should have a nice ring of conifer cover around the edge of it, and some thick browse nearby.

View attachment 31835View attachment 31836View attachment 31837View attachment 31838

Buck my first phone call would be to John at Prairie Seed Farms and describe your predicament. Switch becomes expensive when you have to plant a bunch of times. That would give you true expert advice.

If there is a bunch of leaf litter I could see that being a problem. If you get the seed down before the leaves fall you might need to mow it or something in the Spring so it doesn’t smother the new seedlings. It sounds like you have any weed concerns under control. I am not overly familiar with Minnesota weather (outside of cold and 5 day growing seasons) but anytime after the temps start to drop and with it soil temps would be a fine time to seed.

One other thing is you can plant switch in the spring (drilled) or once soils temps warm up without stratification but it will reduce germination rates. The seed tag will give you all the info you need. Germ tested switch seed is not stratified so there is a germ rate and dormant seed on the labels. I have seen dormant seed rates in the 7-10% rates for switch. That means without stratification and a Spring planting you will still get 85%+ germination rates and the seeds that lays dormant will germinate the following year. You could also stratify the seeds on your own for a Spring planting. That is as simple as putting them in the freezer for a week then pulling them out for a few days and back in the freezer for a week etc to mimic nature. That would give you the full germination rates. It would also give you a chance to prep the areas by getting rid of weeds and leaves without messing up any hunting opportunities.

 

[R179P]

November is a really good time to get the seed out. I have had two really good stands both broadcast in November. It gets the fall rain, plus the start of the freeze thaw cycles. Not to mention a bunch of time to work down into the soil. If I could reseed my fields I would incorporate a lot more Kanlow. Most of my Kanlow is 7-8’ tall in year 3. All of my CIR is 6’ tall.

Based on the responses, my plan is to broadcast switch (mix of CIR and Kanlow) in November. I'll hit it with atrazine and simazine in early spring and gly/2,4-d at Spring green-up. One follow-up question. The area I sprayed this weekend where the switch will be planted is going to have a significant amount of weed debris (I believe mostly foxtail). There is no concern about that foxtail outcompeting the switch and/or getting no seed to soil contact with all the debris? Thank you all for the responses.

 

[Rit]

Based on the responses, my plan is to broadcast switch (mix of CIR and Kanlow) in November. I'll hit it with atrazine and simazine in early spring and gly/2,4-d at Spring green-up. One follow-up question. The area I sprayed this weekend where the switch will be planted is going to have a significant amount of weed debris (I believe mostly foxtail). There is no concern about that foxtail outcompeting the switch and/or getting no seed to soil contact with all the debris? Thank you all for the responses.

I would skip the 2,4-d. I did a test strip with using gly and 2,4-d on a 6’ x 725’ strip. I may have been a little late on the spraying. I got some germination but nowhere near what I am used too. I seeded later than normal also but should have still had better germination. The only thing I can correlate it to is the residual. If your soil temps are up when green up happens you could run some risk that 2,4-d isn’t out of the soil when the new switch starts to germinate.

If you have too much debris that is a concern but a November seeding gives that seed a long time to shake down into the soil. If it’s really thick and you don’t feel like your seeds are going to make it to the soil you will have to get some of that out of there. Some of it will breakdown as you are looking at late May to early June before your switch germinates.

 

[titan23_87]

I'm in the same boat as this post. However, based on the advice I've gotten is to be patient. Year 1 it may look like a failed planting, but you should really see it come year 2. If I had to do it over again, I would of Fall sprayed going into the winter before i frost seeded, with no tilling. Then I would of done the same recommended spring sprayings as you've read on here. I tilled, had bare dirt, then spring sprayed Simazine, Gly, 2-4D as recommended. Weeds still exploded. I think that's a lot to do with tilling.

 

[Rit]

Here is my first year switch from the first time I ever tried to establish it. As you can see there is no switch at all. Everything you see in the photo is foxtail. Given the option of killing the area the fall before is always a better option than not doing it until Spring. This is the same field as posted above just 2 years later.

 

[titan23_87]

View attachment 31891
Here is my first year switch from the first time I ever tried to establish it. As you can see there is no switch at all. Everything you see in the photo is foxtail. Given the option of killing the area the fall before is always a better option than not doing it until Spring. This is the same field as posted above just 2 years later.

Did you then start from scratch and fry it all? Or did you just treat and the field above came back to what it is now?

 

[Rit]

Here is an area that covers an inside corner. It’s a small section of a bigger field. I wanted more seclusion in the corner from the big field and a 6’ tall screen of switch with apple trees is just the thing to do that. I started my prep in July. I sprayed the area twice and it is 100% dead and ready for seed. I will broadcast come November and have no issues with weed pressure in the spring. I’ll spray with gly and probably Simazine at green up.