So now that I have a tractor, I was wondering if any of you subsoil, and if so, how frequently. My plots have been tilled/disced for 2-3 year but I'm heading towards no till/TnM. My property has some serious red clay hardpan, so I'm looking for anything to help improve the soil and hold moisture.
Subsoiling
- Thread starter WeedyJ
- Start date
You have a hard pan because you disc the soil. Retire the disc, plant easy to grow crops such as rye, wheats, and crimson clover. Let those roots break up your hard pan. Keep the root system undisturbed and give it a few year and you will be better off. No till plAnting is the right way to go.
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yoderjac
5 year old buck +
IN general, tillage, especially deep tillage can really harm your soils. I would not make a general practice of subsoiling. There are a few special cases where it is necessary. For example if a field has been abused by using a bottom plow for years, depending on the soil type, it can form a hardpan at plot depth. This can keep roots from penetrating the hard pan. The other case where subsoiling can be beneficial is to relieve compression in heavy clay soils. An example where I used it was to reclaim old logging decks on our pine farm. The heavy logging equipment compressed the clay so much that weeds would not even grow. I had to use a subsoiler to relieve the compression. After that, I rotated buckwheat and WR without tillage for a couple years and then added perennial clover to the WR in the fall. From there I could maintain a clover plot for about 5 years. This helps the soil recover from the abuse.
I ruined a lot of my plots with a 2-bottom plow when I first started and it took me a long time to recover. My plow now sits and rusts. Google "Ray the soil guy" and watch his videos. Start with his water infiltration video. Then read Crimson N Camo's throw and mow thread. He shows how to apply Rays principles to the small plotter with limited equipment. This will help you on your journey to no-till.
So, unless you have a specific problem that needs corrected, keep the subsoiler in the barn.
Thanks,
Jack
To be specific, I'm talking about the skinny ripper type blades that don't really turn the soil, like the ones that bury wire. I was under the impression it would shatter the hardpan, creating a scenario similar to putting gravel at the bottom of a pot when planting potted plants. I did a small area and did not see much soil disturbance superficially. Certainly not like a mid buster or plow.
I definitely have some of those areas
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
Yes, a subsoiler does not turn the soil. It is not as hard on the soil as a bottom plow, but it still destroys the tilth as it rips. As I say, there are special cases where it can be beneficial, but I would not use it unless there is a specific problem you need to solve.
Thanks,
Jack
TreeDaddy
5 year old buck +
FarmerDan
5 year old buck +
There are good reasons for sub soiling, but there are serious reasons to leave it alone. Hard pan forms for a couple reasons. As has been promoted above running heavy equipment across ground, especially when it's wet can cause formation of a hard pan layer. So too will any thing that loosens soil to a certain depth. Soil then settles and puts a lot of pressure at the bottom of the plow layer. There's another cause. If you think about it, soil is nothing but a chemistry lab. There are reactions taking place at different levels at different times in the course of a soil's life (eons?). Some hard pan is cause by reactions of stuff (!) where the soil composition is different. Possibly, the naturally formed hard pan keeps a lid on other stuff, like aluminum, you don't want in your soil layer.
All this assumes there is a hard pan. You can buy (I'm not suggesting you do) a soil compaction tester.
But you can make one as well. Just take a piece of steel rod no more than half an inch in diameter. Sharpen one end. Put a handle on and and go stick it in the ground when the soil is "normally" moist. Most should be able to push that rod into the soil two feet. Sure, you might find roots and rock, but there's somewhere you can push that rod really deep -- unless you have hard pan.
I'm not suggesting everybody run out and do this. Not necessary unless you have serious problems, but it's food plots!
I am not a professional. Results may vary. The characters presented here are paid actors. Consult with a real soil scientist before performing these actions!
All this assumes there is a hard pan. You can buy (I'm not suggesting you do) a soil compaction tester.
But you can make one as well. Just take a piece of steel rod no more than half an inch in diameter. Sharpen one end. Put a handle on and and go stick it in the ground when the soil is "normally" moist. Most should be able to push that rod into the soil two feet. Sure, you might find roots and rock, but there's somewhere you can push that rod really deep -- unless you have hard pan.
I'm not suggesting everybody run out and do this. Not necessary unless you have serious problems, but it's food plots!
I am not a professional. Results may vary. The characters presented here are paid actors. Consult with a real soil scientist before performing these actions!
Thank you for that. This land belonged to the paper companies for years and had been logged repeatedly for pine for years before I got it. I did nothing to it for years and started habitat management about 1.5 years ago, after taking the Level 1 QDMA course. I recently thinned the part that had never been thinned, and removed the bigger trees from the part that had an estate cut on it. All of the rest was cutover that I am slowly getting into early succession and food plots. Some of the areas are like concrete where nothing grows. and I'm willing to bet there's a lot of spots that I could not penetrate the surface with that steel rod, especially where all the logging was done last summer. I'll do some selective subsoiling as I need, but avoid the areas where I've already started the no till approach. I am already seeing some soil changes in some areas after less that a year. Since my alimony finished up last December, I'm struggling trying to figure out what to do with all this surplus cash :-)
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
Your place sounds similar to ours. I have heavy clay soil that is subject to compaction. It was absolutely necessary on old logging decks we converted to food plots. In areas where we created a new food plot after logging we were careful to use a track loader to extract and shake stumps rather than a dozer. Our topsoil is thin even in these places, but we were better off not subsoiling in these. We applied lime on the surface and do not till it in. Our soils are acidic and require over 3 tons/ac of lime for initial adjustment. The good news about clay is that lime travels very slowly, so once amended, you don't need much maintenance lime and don't need it very often if you are not tilling. It does take time for surface applied lime to move through the soil to root level for many crops. Again, we have good news. Crops like buckwheat and WR that help improve the soil will grow in infertile soil with poor pH and make great deer food. We rotate these for a year or two and then convert to perennial clover for several years before planting other crops, just like our logging decks. They become productive immediately.
Logging decks are a bit more problematic for us. They have had all the top soil removed by a dozer and then been run over and over with heavy logging equipment. They are heavily compacted and subsoiling was important here. I only do it once when creating the plot. The other thing I find is that the debris piles along the decks often contain the original topsoil mixed with woody debris that has been rotting over the years. I use the FEL on my tractor to reclaim as much of this top soil as I can and spread it over the deck. It takes more time before these become highly productive, but will produce a reasonable amount of deer food (buckwheat and winter rye) in the first year. Crops like groundhog radish after the first year or so can provide some organic tillage. The best way to build OM is from the top down.
We now include a clause in our logging contracts that require the logger to remove topsoil and save it from any new logging deck they create. They are then required to relieve the compaction and reapply the topsoil after they are done. Rather than re-seeding with fescue, we specify that Winter Rye be used on these decks and anywhere fescue would otherwise be used to stabilize soil.
Thanks,
Jack
Logging decks are a bit more problematic for us. They have had all the top soil removed by a dozer and then been run over and over with heavy logging equipment. They are heavily compacted and subsoiling was important here. I only do it once when creating the plot. The other thing I find is that the debris piles along the decks often contain the original topsoil mixed with woody debris that has been rotting over the years. I use the FEL on my tractor to reclaim as much of this top soil as I can and spread it over the deck. It takes more time before these become highly productive, but will produce a reasonable amount of deer food (buckwheat and winter rye) in the first year. Crops like groundhog radish after the first year or so can provide some organic tillage. The best way to build OM is from the top down.
We now include a clause in our logging contracts that require the logger to remove topsoil and save it from any new logging deck they create. They are then required to relieve the compaction and reapply the topsoil after they are done. Rather than re-seeding with fescue, we specify that Winter Rye be used on these decks and anywhere fescue would otherwise be used to stabilize soil.
Thanks,
Jack
Tap
5 year old buck +
How rocky is your subsurface?
My area has a moderate rock presence with sizes ranging from pebbles to more than a ton. Its very frustrating to run a subsoiler here. Ive broken and damaged my subsoiler several times when it hooks on buried boulders. Ive also had my 6,000 lb, 4wd tractor abruptly stopped in its tracks when the subsoiler hooked a boulder.
Deep ripping on my place is hard on equipment and frustrating. I seldom do it any more.
My area has a moderate rock presence with sizes ranging from pebbles to more than a ton. Its very frustrating to run a subsoiler here. Ive broken and damaged my subsoiler several times when it hooks on buried boulders. Ive also had my 6,000 lb, 4wd tractor abruptly stopped in its tracks when the subsoiler hooked a boulder.
Deep ripping on my place is hard on equipment and frustrating. I seldom do it any more.
