Starting chestnuts

[Mahindra3016]

I collected some chestnuts today from one of my sportsman's clubs trees. They are just starting to fall, I would like to direct sow them into raised beds and have bareroot trees next fall or the following spring.
I tried this past season, and failed miserably, I only sprouted two trees, I had direct sowed the nuts last fall and covered the top of the raised bed with hardware cloth, I since read that you are not to let the nuts freeze, I'm guessing this is what happened.
How would I cold stratify them if I wanted to direct sow them in the spring? I wouldnt want them to start sprouting too early. Is there a way to store them and keep them viable without starting the stratification process?

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[yoderjac]

If I were going to direct seed nuts, I'd plant them in their final locations and protect them in the fall. Chestnuts grow a long tap root very quickly. If you keep them in a raised bed for a season you will be cutting the tap root. That is a lot of wasted energy and it unbalances the tree. When you plant a bare root tree you get a year of sleep, a year of creep, and finally they leap. This is mostly the root system trying to recover.

Letting them freeze is something we try to avoid when we are stratifying them artificially. If they freeze too hard you can kill the kernel but in nature they will tolerate a light freeze. Soil acts as an insulator so they germinate fine in nature.

If you want to put them into suspended animation, simply store them in the fridge in a zip lock bag with no added moisture. Cold stratification requires moisture. That is why when we are cold stratifying seeds we add long fiber sphagnum that is slightly damp.

However, putting them into suspended animation doesn't make much sense to me. They still need 60 to 90 days of cold stratification. I've tried to delay germination by withholding moisture for a while and then adding it. I have not had great luck with this method but others have. If you want to try this, simply hydrate them, dry them off, and put them in a Ziploc bag. Zip it 3/4 closed and fold over the top and place it in the crisper. Then identify your planting date and subtract 60 to 90 days. On that date, open the bag and take a fist full of long fiber sphagnum and saturate it. Then make a fist, squeeze out as much water as you can and place the sphagnum in the bag with the nuts.

Best of luck,

Jack

 

[H20fwler]

I would go ahead and stratify them in the fridge, let them start a tap root and early spring direct seed them where you want them to grow. If you have a bunch of nuts you can roll the dice on what will make it then protect them once up if there is concern or protect them at planting.
I direct seed in early spring and am happy with the success with no protection but I also have plenty of bigger trees so I’m not concerned about higher loss. I have caged some after noticing them others I’ve just left on there own.. in four years of direct seeding in spring I’d say I have a little better than a 10% success rate with them for the little effort I have invested.

I agree with Jack on not moving once they are growing in ground they do throw a serious tap root that goes deep for the trees size.

 

[cavey]

Something I want to try next time I do chestnuts, -- I have grow lights for starting vegetables and last winter I cold stratified about a 100 nuts and had something like 85 grow indoors and we went through the whole, Dixie cup - to pot to pot up grade nightmare. From there to later being fall, field planted or heeled into a nursery area. Anyways as mentioned above they have a wicked tap root which you lose when you pot them out and re-pot them.
So... my thought was, the next time I try to grow them from seed indoors I will cut thin walled PVC into 3 or 4 foot lengths and rip them up the sides to make a bunch of splittable grow tubes that I will fill with a soil medium. I'm going to only tube out a smaller number of nuts to fit into the shelving unit I used with the grow lights. My hope is that I will keep the tap root growing - it would be interesting to see just how long of a root the tree would initially send down. I know they quickly out grew what ever I had them in.

I just bought a power dirt auger and need to grab a auger bit the same size or a bit bigger than any pvc I use... bore the whole - drop in the tube with the plant (long tap root and all), and pull the split sides out...

That's the theory any ways

 

[yoderjac]

Something I want to try next time I do chestnuts, -- I have grow lights for starting vegetables and last winter I cold stratified about a 100 nuts and had something like 85 grow indoors and we went through the whole, Dixie cup - to pot to pot up grade nightmare. From there to later being fall, field planted or heeled into a nursery area. Anyways as mentioned above they have a wicked tap root which you lose when you pot them out and re-pot them.
So... my thought was, the next time I try to grow them from seed indoors I will cut thin walled PVC into 3 or 4 foot lengths and rip them up the sides to make a bunch of splittable grow tubes that I will fill with a soil medium. I'm going to only tube out a smaller number of nuts to fit into the shelving unit I used with the grow lights. My hope is that I will keep the tap root growing - it would be interesting to see just how long of a root the tree would initially send down. I know they quickly out grew what ever I had them in.

I just bought a power dirt auger and need to grab a auger bit the same size or a bit bigger than any pvc I use... bore the whole - drop in the tube with the plant (long tap root and all), and pull the split sides out...

That's the theory any ways

If you want to start them indoors under lights, you will be much better of with and air pruning container system. Having said that, good luck with your experiment and be sure to report back if you try it.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[cavey]

My last batch of nuts I did indoors under grow lights, converted a shelving unit into a make shift two level rack and hung the lights so that I could adjust them as they grew. Everything started in dixie cups... moved them up through 2 sets of diff pots, all that germinated which was a high percent - I think I had like 85 trees growing in the basement made it. I've lost some out in the field and still have about a dozen potted.

I just ran of out of height space with the shelving split in half - the trees grew too fast indoors. This next time its half the number of trees in deep pots.

The air pruner pots were just to expensive for the number of trees I did ( I have other trees potted out too in diff types of pots Im trying - someday I will try a air pruner pot or a DIY version of some... I just cant justify the added cost when I was doing so many and was having good enough luck with what I was working with.

I used 16" deep tree pots for my grafted apple trees this year and they are doing awesome. I just want to give the super deep pots a try - especially with my next batch of Dunstan chestnuts and their crazy tap roots. The repotting of the plants was one of the big pains, next time its one (pot) and done - direct seeding just wont work as well for me up here in Wisconsin ... I like having a bit more control over the plants as they grow. I think this idea will work well. Its just a bigger version of my racked up grafted apple trees. Their growth and easy of disease control and watering has convinced me that Im on the right track for what works for me. Its all just a big experiment anyways

 

[yoderjac]

My last batch of nuts I did indoors under grow lights, converted a shelving unit into a make shift two level rack and hung the lights so that I could adjust them as they grew. Everything started in dixie cups... moved them up through 2 sets of diff pots, all that germinated which was a high percent - I think I had like 85 trees growing in the basement made it. I've lost some out in the field and still have about a dozen potted.

I just ran of out of height space with the shelving split in half - the trees grew too fast indoors. This next time its half the number of trees in deep pots.

The air pruner pots were just to expensive for the number of trees I did ( I have other trees potted out too in diff types of pots Im trying - someday I will try a air pruner pot or a DIY version of some... I just cant justify the added cost when I was doing so many and was having good enough luck with what I was working with.

I used 16" deep tree pots for my grafted apple trees this year and they are doing awesome. I just want to give the super deep pots a try - especially with my next batch of Dunstan chestnuts and their crazy tap roots. The repotting of the plants was one of the big pains, next time its one (pot) and done - direct seeding just wont work as well for me up here in Wisconsin ... I like having a bit more control over the plants as they grow. I think this idea will work well. Its just a bigger version of my racked up grafted apple trees. Their growth and easy of disease control and watering has convinced me that Im on the right track for what works for me. Its all just a big experiment anyways

I don't think the deep pots will solve your problem. I'd either direct seed or use an air pruning container system. It can be done on the cheap. If you pay close attention to watering, this DIY solution worked well for the first stage: http://www.habitat-talk.com/index.p...ntainers-diy-transfered-from-qdma-forum.5542/

Lots of folks use the cheap canvas type bags for the second and third stage. They can be had pretty cheap.

 

[Skelly]

I don't think the deep pots will solve your problem. I'd either direct seed or use an air pruning container system. It can be done on the cheap. If you pay close attention to watering, this DIY solution worked well for the first stage: http://www.habitat-talk.com/index.p...ntainers-diy-transfered-from-qdma-forum.5542/

Lots of folks use the cheap canvas type bags for the second and third stage. They can be had pretty cheap.

I hadn’t read this thread before.

Good ideas in there.

 

[Mahindra3016]

Air pruning pots are out of my price range for what I want to do, I planted bare root ripped from the ground Chinese chestnut seedlings from pa game commission 3 springs ago, and got my first burrs this year already with a few of the trees 10 ft tall already.

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[Cap'n]

Air pruning pots are out of my price range for what I want to do, I planted bare root ripped from the ground Chinese chestnut seedlings from pa game commission 3 springs ago, and got my first burrs this year already with a few of the trees 10 ft tall already.

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You might try these fabric pots. https://www.greenhousemegastore.com/root-pouch-boxer-brown-fabric-pot-longest-lifespan
They are durable and reusable for several seasons and I have mine on a wire rack so they air prune on the bottom too. I forget what I paid but I got 50 of them and it was very reasonable.

 

[yoderjac]

You might try these fabric pots. https://www.greenhousemegastore.com/root-pouch-boxer-brown-fabric-pot-longest-lifespan
They are durable and reusable for several seasons and I have mine on a wire rack so they air prune on the bottom too. I forget what I paid but I got 50 of them and it was very reasonable.

Great post. I use Rootmaker, but the brand doesn't matter. The key is that whatever the container design is, that it is supported by the underlying research. Some containers will get hotter than others in the sun. Some will require more or less frequent watering. Some will be easier or harder to extract from. They all have their specific characteristics but here are the basics:

1) Roots are either captured, constricted, or are directed to holes or grow through the container and are air pruned.
2) Container sizes roughly support the 4" rule. Most of the upstream branching occurs in the last 4" before the prune. This means each successive container only allows about 4" additional inches on all five sides of the rootball than the previous container.
3) You use a well drained professional mix for trees that don't like wet feet (like chestnuts).

If you are growing in high volume for quite a few years in a row like I've been doing, it is probably worth investing in RB2s or similar containers simply because they save time and effort and are reusable for many, many years. When you are buying them in full boxes, you can get quite a discount by establishing a commercial account with Rootmaker.

However, if you just want to try it or are working is small volume, root pruning does not need to be expensive.

One quick note for folks doing this for the first time. Don't try to start trees indoors in the winter in a window or green house. They will look fine above the ground but the root system will be abysmal. You don't need expensive and fancy grow lights or bulbs. Cheap 4' shot lights with regular bulbs work fine. The key is rigging the lights so you can adjust them to be 2" - 3" above the trees as they grow.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[TreeDaddy]

I have had success with Walmart shopping bags

They are 50cents/bag

bill

 

[cavey]

If you are growing in high volume for quite a few years in a row like I've been doing, it is probably worth investing in RB2s or similar containers simply because they save time and effort and are reusable for many, many years. When you are buying them in full boxes, you can get quite a discount by establishing a commercial account with Rootmaker.

Jack

If you don't mind, what is the box count and how many boxes put you into their commercial account eligibility - and did/do you order direct. You can PM if you like. The price is what has held me up on using them due to the number of trees I usually try and do per year.

 

[yoderjac]

Actually, I don't think it is a box count, it is simply having a business. I just gave them the EIN for our farm and they were happy to setup the account. When you buy wholesale from them there are minimum counts. For example Express trays are sold by the 16 count and the cells are sold by the 288 count (enough to fill the 16 trays). The RB2s that I use for my second and third stages are sold by the 50 count.

One caution, you pay actual shipping cost and some products have part that come from different factories. I'm trying to remember, but I think cells came from one factory and the express trays from another, so there were two shipping bills. Once you establish a commercial account you can go to their wholesale page and log in to see prices. These prices don't reflect the shipping.

If there are specific things you want to know wholesale prices on, let me know and I'll look them up for you.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[DLH]

I will add I like the dee pots the most. Someone gave me chestnuts that had been grown in them and I put some in this spring to give them a try. I like that they give the tap root more depth before air pruning and they are relatively cheap. The deepest ones are 12.50 for 25 I always thought the root makers were over priced. The plastic these are built out of seem pretty solid and could be used for multiple seasons. I’m not too serious about growing in pots due to the time involved and having two little kids but I will say I put my chestnuts in these 12 per 5 gallon bucket sit them under a shade tree in my yard then forget them until fall. Not perfect but it beats checking them constantly. If you are open to direct seeding check out Merle hawgarrds thread I like his coke bottle protection.

 

[buckdeer1]

I know this is a nut thread but Chestnut hills is doing fall shipping now for some zones,too bad not my zone