Rookie Dunstan Qustion

[98uconn]

I’m attempting to start some Dunstans from seed this year. I just purchased 25 on Ebay which had been stratified already. I put them in a bowl of water overnight to soak before putting them in peat moss and all of them are floating. Does that mean that they’re not viable? Thank you.

 

[yoderjac]

I’m attempting to start some Dunstans from seed this year. I just purchased 25 on Ebay which had been stratified already. I put them in a bowl of water overnight to soak before putting them in peat moss and all of them are floating. Does that mean that they’re not viable? Thank you.

Most likely. I've had a few that floated at first but were not dead and eventually after some time hydrating they sank and then germinated. My guess is that you were had buying on eBay. Next year see if you can order some from Chestnut Ridge of Pike County in October and stratify them yourself. They have been a dependable source for nuts from Dunstan trees. They do a good job of harvest and care and I've had less mold exposure at the source when buying from them than other sources I've used on ebay. By the way, if there were already cold stratified and were viable, you would not need to put them in peat, they would be ready to plant.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[98uconn]

Thank you so much for the info.. I figured that was the case. I guess I’ll have to wait until next year to get some seeds from a better source.


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[yoderjac]

Thank you so much for the info.. I figured that was the case. I guess I’ll have to wait until next year to get some seeds from a better source.


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There is a guy on here that goes by BigEight who sometime has more chestnuts that germinate than he can handle. In the past he has been gracious enough to help out a few guys. You may want to PM him and see what his situation is this year if you already have an indoor growing setup ready to go. If not, you might want to focus on getting setup this year. If you plan to direct seed, I think it is best to plant the nuts in the fall and let nature cold stratify them for you.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[98uconn]

Thank you.. I planted 85 Dunstan seedlings from Chestnut Hill in tubes 2 years ago, and thought it would be fun to try some from seed this time. I
have Rootmaker 18’s ready to go and thought I could get them started in there and then plant later in the spring with tubes. I should have known better to buy in Ebay. Thank you for the info.


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[Telemark]

If they are not viable, I think you can get your money back on eBay.

 

[98uconn]

If they are not viable, I think you can get your money back on eBay.

Ok. I’ll give it a shot. Thank you.


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[yoderjac]

Thank you.. I planted 85 Dunstan seedlings from Chestnut Hill in tubes 2 years ago, and thought it would be fun to try some from seed this time. I
have Rootmaker 18’s ready to go and thought I could get them started in there and then plant later in the spring with tubes. I should have known better to buy in Ebay. Thank you for the info.


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Starting trees indoors under lights is a great cabin fever cure for me. Keep in mind that root pruning is a system, not a single container. Here is a thread that has some pictures you might want to checkout: http://www.habitat-talk.com/index.p...h-rootmakers-transfered-from-qdma-forum.5556/

I found that in my area, I can maximize growth with two transplants. If I start chestnuts in December and transplant from 18s to 1 gal RB2s after 12 weeks and then do a second transplant in late spring, the roots fill a 3 gal container by the end of my first growing season. If you are farther north, you may not have enough growing season for two transplants in one season.

I've planted many Dunstan chestnuts over the years grown from seed. I'm now moving on to other trees. As for the chestnut family, this year I'm growing Allegheny Chinquapins this year as well as a few Seguins (Castanea seguinii). Seguins seem hard to come by. They are resistant to blight and produce small chestnuts when they are only a couple years old. I don't have any in the field yet, but so far, they are my favorite for quick production. The Dunstan chestnuts I've planted are over 5 years old and just starting to produce a few nuts.

It has been a long road to get Seguins growing. This thread shows what I've been doing with pictures.

Thanks,

jack

 

[98uconn]

Thank you, for all of the info. I’d like to do some AC’s as well. Looks like I’ll need to wait until next year and get an earlier start obtaining chestnut and AC seeds.


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[yoderjac]

Thank you, for all of the info. I’d like to do some AC’s as well. Looks like I’ll need to wait until next year and get an earlier start obtaining chestnut and AC seeds.


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I have ACs growing native on my farm. I've been collecting seeds and propagating them. Remind me next year and I'll collect some nuts for you. They typically open in mid-September so remind me about then.

Thanks,

jack

 

[98uconn]

Thank you!


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[yoderjac]

By the way, ACs don't require cold stratification. They will germinate in the fall. If you hydrate them and store them in a plastic bag in the crisper with no medium or added moisture, you can slow germination. That is what I did this year. You can see from the thread I linked that I just brought mine out of the fridge and planted them a couple weeks ago. Most but not all had root radicles at the time of planting. The Seguins do require cold stratification just like Dunstans.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[98uconn]

You know you’re stuff!... I’m just getting into this and reading all I can. For the last two years my focus has been on the 85 dunstan seedlings I planted. I have them tubed and drip irrigated and they’re doing very well. Hopefully I’ll see some nuts in another couple of years. I thought I would try to start some from seed alone with some AC’s and maybe some persimmons. I’m in northeast Pennsylvania so I’m not sure how well the persimmons will do.
This spring I have to continue battling the Wooly Adelgid which is decimating Hemlock Trees. I successfully treated a few acres 2 years ago which are doing great but I have 3 more acres that are loaded with eggs this winter so I’ll need to treat them in the spring.


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[yoderjac]

Glad to see the Dunstans are doing well for you. You should be OK with american persimmons in PA. I believe they have cultivars growing well in New York.

 

[H20fwler]

Agree floaters aren't worth the trouble. I've got a few gallon bags of Dunstan's stratifying from my trees and from Chestnut Ridge I'll be direct seeding this spring, almost all of them have radicles now.

Good source for Dunstan nuts to plant they have them in early fall and are priced right. http://chestnutridgeofpikecounty.com/shop/

 

[98uconn]

Agree floaters aren't worth the trouble. I've got a few gallon bags of Dunstan's stratifying from my trees and from Chestnut Ridge I'll be direct seeding this spring, almost all of them have radicles now.

Good source for Dunstan nuts to plant they have them in early fall and are priced right. http://chestnutridgeofpikecounty.com/shop/

Thank you.. I wish I started a few months ago and ordered while chestnuts were available!


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[98uconn]

Curious on thoughts on direct seeding vs starting in 18’s with lights then to 1 gal rootmakers then planting (I wouldn’t have time to go up a another step bc I’d rather not wait till fall in my climate)? In both cases they’d be tubed with weed barrier and drip irrigated. Thank you for input


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[yoderjac]

There are advantages and disadvantages to using a root pruning system. By the way, if you are too far north to do two transplants in one season, it just means you overwinter the trees in 1 gal RB2s and transplant them into 3 gal RB2s the next spring and plant the following fall. Direct seeding will give you a "normal" tree. You need to protect the nuts from rodents and such over the winter with tubs or window screen. With proper cold stratification you get a pretty high percentage of nuts to germinate, but some will not. That means wasted cost and effort protecting nuts that will never germinate. The tree will spend a lot of energy putting down the tap root. This is pretty much how nature grows trees and you should get typical growth rates for your area. Nature puts out thousands of nuts from a tree and only a few end up with the right conditions to germinate and fewer still make it as many are out-competed by weeds or predated by deer or other animals. When you select the site, plant the nut at the proper depth, and protect it, you increase the odds significantly, but not all nuts you plant will work out. However, the work and time involved is much less.

Starting trees indoors under lights in root pruning containers has different advantages and disadvantages. First, with controlled cold stratification and germination, you will get even better germination rates. The 18s will prune the tap roots quickly and upstream branching will begin. More terminal roots mean a more efficient collection of nutrients. Since the tap root is pruned, the energy that would normally go to that is redirected in to secondary and tertiary roots as well as accelerated top growth. When the 18 is full of roots, you transplant to a larger container, and the process repeats.

Also, if you are doing any volume and don't live directly at your planting site, it will be much harder to give seedlings distributed through the field the same care you can when they are growing on your deck or back yard. You have much easier control of water and fertilizer and such in containers. Having said that, there are lots of things you can screw up. It is easy to get mold. Too much water can result in root rot. Using city water can cause nutrient problems because of pH issues and salt buildup. It takes some learning to get things right.

Some percentage of nuts will just produce poor trees no matter what you do. With direct seeding you are stuck with what you got. With a root pruning container system, you can easily cull. If you want 25 trees, you may start with 100 nuts. Perhaps 80 germinate and grow in 18s. Perhaps you pick the strongest growing 50 of them to transplant into 1 gal RB2s. Perhaps after your first growing season when the trees wake up the following spring, you select the best 25 to go into 3 gal RB2s. You can either discard the rest or maybe you plant them from the 1 gal RB2s in the spring knowing that they won't be the best trees. You end up with 25 really good trees.

There are advantages and disadvantages to both approaches. If you find growing trees indoors in the winter a fun cabin fever cure, I'd do it that way. If you find it extra work and a drudgery, you may be better off direct seeding. Both methods work. Neither is right or wrong.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[chickenlittle]

With protection and enough water, direct seeding has worked great for me in PA. Most were taller than a 54" tree tube by the second summer. I planted stratified seeds with radicle roots a couple weeks before last frost. I was able to water during dry spells. It was much easier, less work, and more successful for me than starting inside.

 

[Lot2Learn]

With protection and enough water, direct seeding has worked great for me in PA. Most were taller than a 54" tree tube by the second summer. I planted stratified seeds with radicle roots a couple weeks before last frost. I was able to water during dry spells. It was much easier, less work, and more successful for me than starting inside.

Could you say a little more about what protection worked for you?