Research on planting techniques

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Is no-till farming more profitable?

Over 20 years, University of Missouri research shows no-till offers the highest return for corn and soybeans.

www.farmprogress.com

Seems logical about no till being the most profitable but it was interesting to see that herbicide cost wasn’t reduced. A hypothesis could be made the breaking ground doesn’t produce any more weeds than no till.

 

[willy]

breaking ground doesn’t produce any more weeds than no till.

but it does produce tons more erosion. That cost is enormous and probably incalculable, at least in my small mind.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

but it does produce tons more erosion. That cost is enormous and probably incalculable, at least in my small mind.

Absolutely. Tons of benefits to no till. I was just surprised about the herbicide aspect because i feel like that is used as a pro of no till.

 

[Mortenson]

I thought it was generally considered that no-tillers need to be more aggressive with spraying since they can't kill weeds with conventional methods.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

I thought it was generally considered that no-tillers need to be more aggressive with spraying since they can't kill weeds with conventional methods.

Don’t tell grant woods!

 

[Mortenson]

Don’t tell grant woods!

Haha, I won't. I've never even heard of him outside this forum. I read the article. It's Missouri research. I do think there's a lot of no-till that goes on down there. Rollier ground, probably more lighter clay soils. These are only my opinions, but if the article would've been speaking of my area, I'd call bs on the no-till yielding with the conventional. Of the famous no-tillers in my immediate neighborhood, 3 of the best all quit no-till corn and went to strip till. They still no-till their beans. These winter annuals are becoming more of a problem with each passing year. I'm sure some of you guys are seeing that. They especially love the fields that haven't been tilled. I made one pass around a few of our bean stubble fields last fall. This spring you can tell to the inch where the disc-ripper ran. Plus the corn popped out of the ground faster and more uniform than the entire rest of the field, in that narrow pass. That's 1 of the reasons some of these guys have gone to strip till. Every area is different. We don't see a lot of erosion on our flat 0-2% sloped fields. I agree with the lady's mention of the equipment and labor getting expensive. That's probably part of the reset. Someday our country will be down to a thousand farmers, then a hundred, and then one. If we make it that far.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Haha, I won't. I've never even heard of him outside this forum. I read the article. It's Missouri research. I do think there's a lot of no-till that goes on down there. Rollier ground, probably more lighter clay soils. These are only my opinions, but if the article would've been speaking of my area, I'd call bs on the no-till yielding with the conventional. Of the famous no-tillers in my immediate neighborhood, 3 of the best all quit no-till corn and went to strip till. They still no-till their beans. These winter annuals are becoming more of a problem with each passing year. I'm sure some of you guys are seeing that. They especially love the fields that haven't been tilled. I made one pass around a few of our bean stubble fields last fall. This spring you can tell to the inch where the disc-ripper ran. Plus the corn popped out of the ground faster and more uniform than the entire rest of the field, in that narrow pass. That's 1 of the reasons some of these guys have gone to strip till. Every area is different. We don't see a lot of erosion on our flat 0-2% sloped fields. I agree with the lady's mention of the equipment and labor getting expensive. That's probably part of the reset. Someday our country will be down to a thousand farmers, then a hundred, and then one. If we make it that far.

The amalgamation of farming scares and saddens me.

But to this topic, I am a passive novice wannabe! I enjoy learning about ag but I have no horse in the race. I will say the erosion in my part of the world, in particular my property, infuriates me. So much so the end is near for row cropping on my place, but the erosion is just one of the reasons. The lack of grade in your area makes great sense. Are beans just easier to grow, or what reason is no till more popular? What are some of the annual, cool season weeds you are seeing?

 

[FarmerDan]

The referenced article presents results from a very small area. It's value, at least to me, is the sample size - the number of years in the replication. But the write-up is general in nature. There are a lot of things we don't know about the year-to-year variations. Down on the farm the stress comes from what happens in any given year compared to expectations. I am all in favor of research and the good that can come from it. I am cautious about the conclusions we, the general readers and users and writers, make from a simple read.

I am perplexed about the surprise of equal herbicide costs. For this example it apparently is a fact. For your operation, farm and/or food plot, it may be true -or not, sporadically, never or always.
So, if you disagree you probably have a valid experience-of-one to justify your conclusion.

The same could be said for tillage methods. I guess if I had enough confidence and certainty, no-till would be my only method. But I am not all that confident. No-till takes an extra dose of attention and management. There are something like 20-million to 30-million cropland fields in the USA. What worked for the article's scientists probably will not produce the same results everywhere. Research and communication of the results is valuable. The wider application of many sound practices is very much an art.

 

[Tree Spud]

Haha, I won't. I've never even heard of him outside this forum. I read the article. It's Missouri research. I do think there's a lot of no-till that goes on down there. Rollier ground, probably more lighter clay soils. These are only my opinions, but if the article would've been speaking of my area, I'd call bs on the no-till yielding with the conventional. Of the famous no-tillers in my immediate neighborhood, 3 of the best all quit no-till corn and went to strip till. They still no-till their beans. These winter annuals are becoming more of a problem with each passing year. I'm sure some of you guys are seeing that. They especially love the fields that haven't been tilled. I made one pass around a few of our bean stubble fields last fall. This spring you can tell to the inch where the disc-ripper ran. Plus the corn popped out of the ground faster and more uniform than the entire rest of the field, in that narrow pass. That's 1 of the reasons some of these guys have gone to strip till. Every area is different. We don't see a lot of erosion on our flat 0-2% sloped fields. I agree with the lady's mention of the equipment and labor getting expensive. That's probably part of the reset. Someday our country will be down to a thousand farmers, then a hundred, and then one. If we make it that far.

Most ... can you clarify what you mean by winter annuals being a problem?

 

[Mortenson]

Most ... can you clarify what you mean by winter annuals being a problem?

Sure. They blanket a field. I'll go past a few fields like that shortly and take a pic. If not sprayed they go to seed, use up fertility, and make awesome habitat for crop pests. The guys who are on top of things make a pass with the sprayer in fall. We see a lot of henbit, purple deadnettle, shepherds purse, chickweed, and a little clumpgrass which the name escapes me right now. Although I guess you can say the stuff kinda serves as a cover crop, I don't think it's ideal.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Sure. They blanket a field. I'll go past a few fields like that shortly and take a pic. If not sprayed they go to seed, use up fertility, and make awesome habitat for crop pests. The guys who are on top of things make a pass with the sprayer in fall. We see a lot of henbit, purple deadnettle, shepherds purse, chickweed, and a little clumpgrass which the name escapes me right now. Although I guess you can say the stuff kinda serves as a cover crop, I don't think it's ideal.

From a landowner’s standpoint, I’ll take those compared to what my fields looked like all winter!

 

[homerj]

Sure. They blanket a field. I'll go past a few fields like that shortly and take a pic. If not sprayed they go to seed, use up fertility, and make awesome habitat for crop pests. The guys who are on top of things make a pass with the sprayer in fall. We see a lot of henbit, purple deadnettle, shepherds purse, chickweed, and a little clumpgrass which the name escapes me right now. Although I guess you can say the stuff kinda serves as a cover crop, I don't think it's ideal.

Annual bluegrass?

 

[omicron1792]

I thought it was generally considered that no-tillers need to be more aggressive with spraying since they can't kill weeds with conventional methods.

Yeah. I agree.

Dawg you have to separate farmers from food plotters. We learn to live with weeds to feed deer. If a farmer I could see no till requiring more herbicide.

 

[Mortenson]

From a landowner’s standpoint, I’ll take those compared to what my fields looked like all winter!

That spot needs a grass waterway or terrace. At least as an option vs full on cover crops.

 

[matinc]

Hey Dawgs do you have bad erosion. Do you use a crimper

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Hey Dawgs do you have bad erosion. Do you use a crimper

That’s from my row crop fields. It’s bad, the whole field just washes away. I don’t maintain that but no the farmer doesn’t use a crimper.

 

[Mortenson]

It’s bad, the whole field just washes away.

I guess in my mind that's a situation that cover crops were intended for. If it's already being no-tilled and still washing away, it needs further action. Or make it hay ground. Not every area is designed for the corn/bean rotation. Can't believe you're not finding arrowheads out there, lol

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

I guess in my mind that's a situation that cover crops were intended for. If it's already being no-tilled and still washing away, it needs further action. Or make it hay ground. Not every area is designed for the corn/bean rotation. Can't believe you're not finding arrowheads out there, lol

You and me both! I have dang sure looked but I guess not hard enough.

I have plans for this to be the last year. I’ll plant the flatter parts for large food plots and let the rest turn to some from of crp type ground, though not enrolled in any program. It’s only 60 acres and it’s a bit of a poke from the farmers main area so I think it gets a bit overlooked. There’s literally no topsoil left on any slope. I brought up the erosion this year because I wanted wheat but he didn’t have time…said he would bring his dozer and fix the washes. I said you probably need a dredge and pull all the topsoil out of the creek. I had corn growing a 1/4 mile away last summer from washing downhill!

At the end of the day I think row cropping on leased ground is hard for farmers to justify doing practices with a long term sustainability in mind. I get it to an extent. They are at the mercy of at best a short term contract so I have to think the goal is live for today on leased ground.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Yeah. I agree.

Dawg you have to separate farmers from food plotters. We learn to live with weeds to feed deer. If a farmer I could see no till requiring more herbicide.

Yep. Grant woods planting two diverse blends a year that are best suited to the seasons is a far cry from a single monoculture crop that leaves the dirt without living roots for extended periods of time.

I thought conventional wisdom is that increased chemical use should be expected for no-till farmers as well because they don't have tillage to terminate weeds.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Yep. Grant woods planting two diverse blends a year that are best suited to the seasons is a far cry from a single monoculture crop that leaves the dirt without living roots for extended periods of time.

I thought conventional wisdom is that increased chemical use should be expected for no-till farmers as well because they don't have tillage to terminate weeds.

I have been under the impression that breaking ground encourages seed that has been laying dormant to germinate. I have definitely seen people say no till requires less weed management.