Redo clover plot with what?

tbarile

5 year old buck +
About half acre of my existing clover plot needs to be reseeded. I planned on doing TNM with ladino and winter rye but wanted input on whether there are additional clovers or other plants I should include that provide good nutrition and draw. I’m in northern Indianan 5b. Thanks

There is also a 1/2 acre of turnips, radishes, brassica in this field.
 
Maybe a red clover snd chicory.
 
i'll second the chicory
 
I'll second the red clover. It keeps growing when my white clover gets dry and crispy during a summer drought.
 
About half acre of my existing clover plot needs to be reseeded. I planned on doing TNM with ladino and winter rye but wanted input on whether there are additional clovers or other plants I should include that provide good nutrition and draw. I’m in northern Indianan 5b. Thanks

There is also a 1/2 acre of turnips, radishes, brassica in this field.

Don't plant clover. Rotate the field into an N seeking crop for a year and TNM with perennial clover and WR next year. If a field is old enough that it needs reseeded, it is best to rotate it.

Thanks,

Jack
 
Clover (reds and whites)/chicory & cereal grains (oats, wheat and rye) are a great combination. Your clover won't do much this year, but the cereal grains will provide some interest to the deer. Once the clover comes in once spring arrives then you can terminate the cereal grains if they survive the winter if you wish. Chicory won't interest the deer until it's established...but around here the deer really like it in late october/early november as something changes in it and the deer hit it hard then on my place.

If you want to simply try something new....add in some AWP if you can find a small enough amount. The deer will hammer it, if you have decent deer numbers.....so it may not last long. I like trying different things in small amounts to see how/if the deer will react. You could do the same with soybeans, but the frost will kill any living beans, while the AWP will handle the frost just fine.
 
I ter
Don't plant clover. Rotate the field into an N seeking crop for a year and TNM with perennial clover and WR next year. If a field is old enough that it needs reseeded, it is best to rotate it.

Thanks,

Interesting thought. What would you recommend that seeks nitrogen?
 
Clover (reds and whites)/chicory & cereal grains (oats, wheat and rye) are a great combination. Your clover won't do much this year, but the cereal grains will provide some interest to the deer. Once the clover comes in once spring arrives then you can terminate the cereal grains if they survive the winter if you wish. Chicory won't interest the deer until it's established...but around here the deer really like it in late october/early november as something changes in it and the deer hit it hard then on my place.

If you want to simply try something new....add in some AWP if you can find a small enough amount. The deer will hammer it, if you have decent deer numbers.....so it may not last long. I like trying different things in small amounts to see how/if the deer will react. You could do the same with soybeans, but the frost will kill any living beans, while the AWP will handle the frost just fine.

Awp = Australian winter peas?
 
Awp = Australian winter peas?
Yes...well sort of....AUSTRIAN....not Australian......sorry. We use a lot of acronyms....there is a list of them floating around somewhere.

Glad to see another Hoosier on here as well!
 
Don't plant clover. Rotate the field into an N seeking crop for a year and TNM with perennial clover and WR next year. If a field is old enough that it needs reseeded, it is best to rotate it.

Thanks,

Jack

Interesting. What would you recommend?
 
The first thing I would recommend is putting your location (USDA Zone at least) into your profile. Location is a big driver in recommendations. There are lots of options. For fall, brassicas are big N users. You want to avoid another legume. Unless you are very far north, it is probably too late for a spring plant. Grasses like corn and sorghum are N consumers as well as buckwheat. Cereal grains like WR will also use N.

What happens with perennial clover is that it fixes N into the soil from the air (like any legume). Depending on the type of clover, you can get 5, 7, or even more years out of a field with good establishment and management. Regardless of what you do, a clover field will get weedy after a while. The reason is that grasses love N. Over time they become harder to control.

I'm pretty weed tolerant. My clover fields get very weedy during the summer. I let the weeds grow and you often can't tell from a distance that it is a clover field. Come fall, I mow it right before the season. With our more frequent rain and cool evenings that favor the clover, it typically bounces back and looks like a great clover field again. Eventually, when I have less than 50% clover after bounce back, I will spray with 1 qt/ac gly right before a rain. The gly with kill all the grasses and top-kill the clover, but the perennial clover will bounce back quickly from the root system. You can't do this with a clover plot that is not fully established but it works well with an older plot. It can be done in the spring or fall but you want a good rain in the forecast. This usually gives me a few more years out of the plot.

I typically begin my rotation in the spring. Buckwheat is a good soil building crop that I like in the spring. It is especially good for smaller plots that get a lot of attention from deer. They typically use it but don't abuse it like ice cream crops that can get wiped out. It is a fast grower and will out compete most summer weeds. I typically use brassica that fall along with Winter Rye. I like PTT and GHR as my brassica component. Keep the rates low in a mix. GHR provides earlier season attraction along with the WR and it provides organic tillage.

The best practice for starting a perennial clover plot is to plant it in the fall with a Winter Rye nurse crop and then during the following spring, mow the WR back to 6"-8" (depending on the type of clover) each time the WR hits a foot or so. This slowly release the clover without killing the WR. The WR keep growing and battling weeds until it dies naturally. I find this method gives me the cleanest field to start with. After that first spring, I become very weed tolerant. I may mow once in subsequent springs if I get around to it and I always mow in the fall right before the season begins.

Thanks,

Jack
 
The first thing I would recommend is putting your location (USDA Zone at least) into your profile. Location is a big driver in recommendations. There are lots of options. For fall, brassicas are big N users. You want to avoid another legume. Unless you are very far north, it is probably too late for a spring plant. Grasses like corn and sorghum are N consumers as well as buckwheat. Cereal grains like WR will also use N.

What happens with perennial clover is that it fixes N into the soil from the air (like any legume). Depending on the type of clover, you can get 5, 7, or even more years out of a field with good establishment and management. Regardless of what you do, a clover field will get weedy after a while. The reason is that grasses love N. Over time they become harder to control.

I'm pretty weed tolerant. My clover fields get very weedy during the summer. I let the weeds grow and you often can't tell from a distance that it is a clover field. Come fall, I mow it right before the season. With our more frequent rain and cool evenings that favor the clover, it typically bounces back and looks like a great clover field again. Eventually, when I have less than 50% clover after bounce back, I will spray with 1 qt/ac gly right before a rain. The gly with kill all the grasses and top-kill the clover, but the perennial clover will bounce back quickly from the root system. You can't do this with a clover plot that is not fully established but it works well with an older plot. It can be done in the spring or fall but you want a good rain in the forecast. This usually gives me a few more years out of the plot.

I typically begin my rotation in the spring. Buckwheat is a good soil building crop that I like in the spring. It is especially good for smaller plots that get a lot of attention from deer. They typically use it but don't abuse it like ice cream crops that can get wiped out. It is a fast grower and will out compete most summer weeds. I typically use brassica that fall along with Winter Rye. I like PTT and GHR as my brassica component. Keep the rates low in a mix. GHR provides earlier season attraction along with the WR and it provides organic tillage.

The best practice for starting a perennial clover plot is to plant it in the fall with a Winter Rye nurse crop and then during the following spring, mow the WR back to 6"-8" (depending on the type of clover) each time the WR hits a foot or so. This slowly release the clover without killing the WR. The WR keep growing and battling weeds until it dies naturally. I find this method gives me the cleanest field to start with. After that first spring, I become very weed tolerant. I may mow once in subsequent springs if I get around to it and I always mow in the fall right before the season begins.

Thanks,

Jack

Thanks for the tips. I went into tiny profile and tried to add 5b but couldn’t figure it out.

My clover (4 acres) has been strong for 5+ years after I mow it in the fall. This sections im referring to has been struggling for 2 years in a row so your right that I may need to switch it up for a year and pull that N out. I would prefer to stick with throw n mow (I spray n roll), does your rotation work with that planting style?
 
I agree with Jack, but I would spray it now, plant winter rye in it now, then add fresh clover this fall. The winter rye will use up the N in the soil, and pull up other nutrients, this year, and early next spring, prior to the new clover starting back up.
 
You think that short period of time with WR will pull enough N out of the soil?
 
Thanks for the tips. I went into tiny profile and tried to add 5b but couldn’t figure it out.

My clover (4 acres) has been strong for 5+ years after I mow it in the fall. This sections im referring to has been struggling for 2 years in a row so your right that I may need to switch it up for a year and pull that N out. I would prefer to stick with throw n mow (I spray n roll), does your rotation work with that planting style?

I do a lot of T&M for fall planting. Brassicas and WR do well with it in my soils. I do have a small no-till drill. One other trick I uses is to no-till WR & GHR when the clover is suppressed with gly. I just reposted some pics on another thread: http://habitat-talk.com/index.php?threads/diversity.11204/page-2#post-203847

I like a 12 to 18 month rotation. If I rotate to brassica in the fall, I'll plant a N seeking crop for the summer. Buckwheat is a short-term crop that works well for me. The next fall I'll go back to clover. If I start the rotation in the spring with buckwheat, I continue with brassica that fall followed by another spring buckwheat plant before rotating back to clover. Spring planted perennial clover is asking for weed competition, so I never plant clover in the spring.

Thanks,

Jack
 
How do you plant your buckwheat in the spring? I don’t have access to no till.
 
How do you plant your buckwheat in the spring? I don’t have access to no till.

I just surface broadcast it and cultipack it. Buckwheat will grow in the dirt in the bed of my truck. It is one of the easiest crops to plant.
 
That's why the chicory should work great---it thrives off of the nitrogen from the clover. Clover and chicory are like peanut butter and jelly.
 
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