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PH for apple trees?
- Thread starter Powder
- Start date
sandbur
5 year old buck +
From what little I know, you should try for 6.5 or so. Crabs MAY do OK with .5 less.
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cavey
5 year old buck +
(I have seen 6.0-6.5 range generally talked about for "most fruits" and an apple range of 5.0-6.5 on the net)... I just took a 101 apple tree class for the hell of it to see what organic info was out there the nursery preached that 6.3-6.8 is a good range to keep them at so they "thrive". Your pretty acidic getting down to where most people like to see their blue berries grown at - that 5.0 ph , Im thinking the tree will survive at that ph but may not be as fruitful as it could be. Hopefully some of the guys on more acidic soils will chime in... but I would think it is safe to say that you need to start throwing down some lime, its cheap enough and would help what ever you will have seeded down around them...
Powder
5 year old buck +
Yeah, we have lots of blueberries!
I started foodplotting about 3-4 years ago and what I plant normally germinates but has been less than stellar. In all fairness I haven't put the effort in, especially regarding lime, to make them better. Because of my lack of time and success I'm rethinking my approach to foodplots. I'm thinking about putting in apple (mostly crab) trees with late drop times and then plant rye underneath. I know the rye will grow. I'm contemplating clover too but I don't want to have to deal with terminating it and possibly harming the apple trees. My thought is once I get the trees established this would be a good way to keep the seed and fertilizer costs down and mainly focus on tree maintenance. I'd seed rye in late summer and mow. The old stuff will dye off, I'd get free seed and supplement it with a bit more. The mix of clover, rye and apples in the fall sounds to me like something that should work.
I started foodplotting about 3-4 years ago and what I plant normally germinates but has been less than stellar. In all fairness I haven't put the effort in, especially regarding lime, to make them better. Because of my lack of time and success I'm rethinking my approach to foodplots. I'm thinking about putting in apple (mostly crab) trees with late drop times and then plant rye underneath. I know the rye will grow. I'm contemplating clover too but I don't want to have to deal with terminating it and possibly harming the apple trees. My thought is once I get the trees established this would be a good way to keep the seed and fertilizer costs down and mainly focus on tree maintenance. I'd seed rye in late summer and mow. The old stuff will dye off, I'd get free seed and supplement it with a bit more. The mix of clover, rye and apples in the fall sounds to me like something that should work.
bbcoach
5 year old buck +
Powder, if you know your PH and don't add the required lime to bring it up to the desired level you are doing two things 1. you WILL see undesirable results with everything you plant. You won't get the desired growth and you'll 2. Throw money and time at your food plots and trees and get totally frustrated. PH is the key in soil health that will allow your trees and food plots to take up the fertilizer you put down and thrive. Don't second guess your PH, get your soil tested and get the required lime down. Your food plots and trees will THANK YOU for it. Good Luck.
For a completely different opinion, ph is relatively unimportant. Scientifically, ph is the measure of the number of H ions in comparison to the number of OH ions. If you have the same number of each, your soil will have a ph of 7. If you have 10 H for every OH, your soil has a ph of 6. If you have 100 H for every OH, your soil has a ph of 5.
So, if you have a low ph, it's because you have a lot of lonely Hydrogen ions waiting for minerals to attach too. Your soil is most likely low in calcium or magnesium, but could be potassium, sodium, or other trace minerals.
Write this down.......Low ph is not the problem keeping plants or trees from growing well, it is simply a symptom of the mineral imbalance that keeps them from growing well.
So get a soil test. An in depth test from Logan Labs is $30, and includes full details on the mineral levels available in your soil.
Here's what you're looking for.
Calcium - 68%
Magnesium - 12%
Potassium - 4%
Sodium - 1%
Sulfur - 75 parts per million
Iron - 100 ppm
Phosphorous - 75 ppm
Manganese - 60 ppm
Zinc - 8 ppm
Copper - 4 ppm
Boron - 3 ppm
Cobalt - 2 ppm
Molybdenum - 1 ppm
1 ppm is equal to 2 pounds per acre. So if your test says you're 10 ppm low on phosphorous, you need 20 pounds per acre.
A very good read, even if it's 10 years old now - http://www.soilminerals.com/IdealSoilII.htm
So, if you have a low ph, it's because you have a lot of lonely Hydrogen ions waiting for minerals to attach too. Your soil is most likely low in calcium or magnesium, but could be potassium, sodium, or other trace minerals.
Write this down.......Low ph is not the problem keeping plants or trees from growing well, it is simply a symptom of the mineral imbalance that keeps them from growing well.
So get a soil test. An in depth test from Logan Labs is $30, and includes full details on the mineral levels available in your soil.
Here's what you're looking for.
Calcium - 68%
Magnesium - 12%
Potassium - 4%
Sodium - 1%
Sulfur - 75 parts per million
Iron - 100 ppm
Phosphorous - 75 ppm
Manganese - 60 ppm
Zinc - 8 ppm
Copper - 4 ppm
Boron - 3 ppm
Cobalt - 2 ppm
Molybdenum - 1 ppm
1 ppm is equal to 2 pounds per acre. So if your test says you're 10 ppm low on phosphorous, you need 20 pounds per acre.
A very good read, even if it's 10 years old now - http://www.soilminerals.com/IdealSoilII.htm
bbcoach
5 year old buck +
Barndog, your opinion isn't completely different than mine. What's in Ag lime? Calcium and magnesium which helps neutralize acidic soils and also raises your percentages. So when you add lime your raising mineral levels and neutralizing your soil at the same time. A Quality soil test will give you all the levels you have posted and it will give you recommendations for adding the required lime and fertilizer for the crop that you specify. Get a Quality soil test and follow it PERIOD.
cavey
5 year old buck +
Barbdog is right... you need a full soil test. One thing I did learn from the nursery was they did stress if your ph is low check Magnesium levels - if they are also low go with dolimatic lime; if the mag level is high but you still need to bump up your ph use calcitic lime. For those with high ph > 6.8 compost and or use composted peat moss which will help to bring down the ph or use sulfur.
Bowsnbucks
5 year old buck +
Robert799 - ^^^^ Fall and winter is a great time to get lime down. It takes lime a few months to get down into the soil profile where it's needed, so if you put it down now or in winter, it has time to leach down so your plants next spring & summer can use it in next year's growth cycle.
I've thrown pelletized lime on top of snow at camp some years ago in a fallow, abandoned field. It only had some sort of crappy, wire-y grass growing in it at the time. The snow melted and helped the lime seep down into the soil and come spring, wild clover was sprouting all through that field. The only change to that field was the lime on top of the snow. Because lime takes a while to get down into the soil, NOW is a good time to put some down.
I've thrown pelletized lime on top of snow at camp some years ago in a fallow, abandoned field. It only had some sort of crappy, wire-y grass growing in it at the time. The snow melted and helped the lime seep down into the soil and come spring, wild clover was sprouting all through that field. The only change to that field was the lime on top of the snow. Because lime takes a while to get down into the soil, NOW is a good time to put some down.
cavey
5 year old buck +
You lime today for tomorrow, its a long term kind of approach - you really need to find out what your soils ph level actually is... it can take years to correct ph levels and literally tons of lime to the acre if your ph levels are really low. Liming when the product can get into the soil when run off isn't a concern
