Opinions on Winter wheat vs winter rye

[Trophy Collector]

I want some opinions on winter wheat and winter rye for deer in the fall and spring? Just wondering which one would be better for both seasons? Thanks

 

[4wanderingeyes]

I plant winter rye in the fall, and it comes up in the spring. I will also mix oats with it, but they don't come back in the spring. If I didn't plant winter rye in the fall, I will plant oats in the spring.


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[yoderjac]

Deer don't seem to have strong preferences on cereal grain. Each has a slightly different peak period when it has slight attraction advantages. WR is the overall hands down winner from a soil perspective. It will tolerate poor pH and fertility and still perform well. It is a great soil improver and has an allelopathic effect on weeds. The peak periods for WR and Oats together completely over lap WW. WR will surface broadcast much better on my soils than WW.

The only real advantage I can think of for WW is if you are planting for turkey and let it head out. WR grows pretty tall and the seed heads are more difficult for young birds to reach. WW is lower growing.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Tap]

I have no experience with wheat, mostly because of the advice Paul Knox (aka Lickcreek) used to give.
If I'm remembering correctly, he strongly advocated rye over wheat.
If he said it, then it's good enough for me.

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[buckdeer1]

I haven't ever planted rye but deer in my area use winter wheat as one of their main feed sources in winter

 

[4wanderingeyes]

My bad, I thought you said oats. I have only planted ww once, and I mixed it with oats and rye. It was a hit in the fall.


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[ghilliehunter]

Trophy, I did my first ever plot a few years ago. In the fall broadcast white clover and winter rye after reading Lickcreek's recommendation. Turned out fantastic.

 

[j-bird]

I have planted wheat and rye side by side one year to see if there was a difference. Both survive the winter in my area. What I saw was simply that the rye stayed green longer and greened up sooner...... But the rye also got significantly tall than the wheat come spring. The deer didn't seam to care one way or the other. I do know rye will grow on damp concrete - I had it grow in some mulch in the bed of my truck - seriously. The rye come spring also can provide fawning cover ......because it will get waist tall or better. All depends on what your looking for.

 

[Someday isle]

Let me preface this by saying I have exactly one years experience but...I used the basic LC mix last year in my first plots. I cleared a new trail area this spring (less than 1/8 acre total) and frost seeded some clover. It's full of grass and weeds along with the clover. I have close to an acres worth of trails. The rye is growing pretty thick right now and the weeds are very few. The clover mix I used last year was a blend of medium red and ladino with Kopu II frost seeded this spring. The clover is looking like it has a good start. The rye is about 6-8 inches tall as of this week. Last week I was still getting pictures of the deer eating the rye. This week it looks like the growth is outpacing the deer for the first time all winter. I kind of got the feeling today that it looks like the deer have let up on it for now. I'll let it grow and protect the clover and create some cover for the deer and turkey while it hopefully keeps the weeds down so the clover will work all spring and summer. Small sample size but I'm sold on it for next year already.

Note the dates on the pictures. The last ten days the rye has really taken off.

 

[TreeDaddy]

Winter Rye vs Winter wheat is a classic Paul Knox thread

Once you start reading it ,you will finish it in one sitting

LickCreek threads are Gospel of habitat management

They are treasures

bill

 

[ncstewart]

I like the rye over wheat but that's just my personal preference. I have tried both and can't really tell any difference as far as usage goes. Only thing is on my land rye seems to do a lot better.


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[bigbendmarine]

Since the thread focuses on rye compared to wheat, can't help but throw triticale in the discussion. Triticale is a cross between rye and wheat. Not sure about regional growth differences, but it does really well down my way (FL) and I often include it in mixes I plant.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

Since the thread focuses on rye compared to wheat, can't help but throw triticale in the discussion. Triticale is a cross between rye and wheat. Not sure about regional growth differences, but it does really well down my way (FL) and I often include it in mixes I plant.

Havent done any preference test on the deer. I am in the first spring of my fall seeded cereals. The WR didnt do much that I over seeded into my beans last fall but is growing well this spring. Didnt see much browse pressure on it yet. I dont have a camera on it though.

A buddy of mine plants Triticale in the fall and swears by it. Its one of the only things he plants and it draws deer like crazy where he hunts. Not sure on spring time use.

As a weed suppressor and soil builder my WR looks to be doing the job well. One of my plots it is coming up patchy but that is a soil issue and one of the reasons that I will be planting WR in that plot for a few seasons.

 

[scott44]

I have never planted WW so I can't answer to it but WR is a major part of my plots fall and spring. I use the Dbltree rotation and roll the WR down after broadcasting my brassicas into it. quite a bit of mulch there for OM.

 

[dogghr]

A lot of people think that Lickcreek had an easy time with his thots on the old site. In reality he took quite a beating for his thots on using WR instead of wheat, and some other of his ideas. His thinking, and I agree, was it worked so well in rotation with weed control and soil improvements as well as a cover crop.
My first plots were done with WW before I read his stuff, but mostly WR since then. It is hard to beat and is my go to. But with that said, I do see slightly more attraction to WW when I use it. My biggest complaint of WW is that it tillers moreso than rye, and with no till rotation, is a bit more work the following fall.
The two huge adavantages of using Pauls rotation, is the soil building you get for future crops, and with his strip planting in plots as he suggests, a tremendous affect of edge, which most animals, especially deer , like. Most of us use some form of LCs process, sometimes tweaking it a little, But its really a hard process to improve on.

 

[Big Snow Man]

I mix wheat and rye together and buy more of the one which is cheapest. The deer have no preference they mow each one down the same.

 

[Tree Spud]

A lot of people think that Lickcreek had an easy time with his thots on the old site. In reality he took quite a beating for his thots on using WR instead of wheat, and some other of his ideas. His thinking, and I agree, was it worked so well in rotation with weed control and soil improvements as well as a cover crop.
My first plots were done with WW before I read his stuff, but mostly WR since then. It is hard to beat and is my go to. But with that said, I do see slightly more attraction to WW when I use it. My biggest complaint of WW is that it tillers moreso than rye, and with no till rotation, is a bit more work the following fall.
The two huge adavantages of using Pauls rotation, is the soil building you get for future crops, and with his strip planting in plots as he suggests, a tremendous affect of edge, which most animals, especially deer , like. Most of us use some form of LCs process, sometimes tweaking it a little, But its really a hard process to improve on.

I am not clear on the edge effects you state his approach creates. I don't recall any plants taller than ~2' and he actually advises against corn due to how hard it is on the soil.

Please explain the edge effects you are referring to.

.

 

[dogghr]

Treespud, LC suggested his rotational plantings be done in strips which involves the clover/rye mix, and the brassica mix in general. As you know, most animals from rodents to deer are creatures of edge, whether it be topographical, plant growth, or structural. It doesn't have to have height necessarily for them to follow such an edge. Thus in my plantings that I have done in those strips, the deer will certainly feed thruout the plot, but you can see a defined path worn between the two plantings where increase travel occurs, as well as the other edges, such as where plot meets forest. The more edge, the more attracting a plot can be and this habit of following that edge can be used in foodplot design to promote deer passing in certain directions, or locations. Many times, it is these various edges that you see more feeding in certain parts of the plot, they are simply more comfortable.
Same can be true within the woods. Classic is conifer/hardwood edge. While there is no defined line between the two, deer will tend to use that edge more. The more edges one can find coming together in a spot, whether it be topo, plant, or structure, the greater the chance of deer/buck usage of that spot and such can be the honey hole for multiple bucks over the years.

 

[Tree Spud]

Treespud, LC suggested his rotational plantings be done in strips which involves the clover/rye mix, and the brassica mix in general. As you know, most animals from rodents to deer are creatures of edge, whether it be topographical, plant growth, or structural. It doesn't have to have height necessarily for them to follow such an edge. Thus in my plantings that I have done in those strips, the deer will certainly feed thruout the plot, but you can see a defined path worn between the two plantings where increase travel occurs, as well as the other edges, such as where plot meets forest. The more edge, the more attracting a plot can be and this habit of following that edge can be used in foodplot design to promote deer passing in certain directions, or locations. Many times, it is these various edges that you see more feeding in certain parts of the plot, they are simply more comfortable.
Same can be true within the woods. Classic is conifer/hardwood edge. While there is no defined line between the two, deer will tend to use that edge more. The more edges one can find coming together in a spot, whether it be topo, plant, or structure, the greater the chance of deer/buck usage of that spot and such can be the honey hole for multiple bucks over the years.

dogghr ... interesting. So you are saying the even the slight variation of height between the rye/clover & the brassicas can be considered an edge?

I am going to follow his strip planting suggestions this year. I intend on surrounding the plots with tall growing Egyptian wheat & Milo. Maybe a strip of Milo down the center of the plot.

 

[dogghr]

dogghr ... interesting. So you are saying the even the slight variation of height between the rye/clover & the brassicas can be considered an edge?

I am going to follow his strip planting suggestions this year. I intend on surrounding the plots with tall growing Egyptian wheat & Milo. Maybe a strip of Milo down the center of the plot.

I don't think it is even a variation in height so much. I have an alfalfa plot that butts against a RC plot and both are kept browsed the same level. And between the two is the same worn path where the deer just prefer that travel route. Regardless, I think you will like LCs strip planting idea. Good luck.