Opinions from corn and bean plottters.

[FarmerDan]

I understand. I have and manage about 3,500 acres all together. At this farm, really the only thing that has change is the lack of supplemental feeding via corn and corn and bean plots. As for protein sources from 2000 to 2015 they got protein through natural vegetation, soybeans and lots of well fertilized clover and alfalfa plots. None of that has changed.


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I'm willing to submit there's some potential merit in providing supplement energy in the form of corn post rut. There's a thought that antler development and body condition for the next year are somewhat dependent on post rut nutrition. If I'm reading your initial inquiry correctly antler size and body weight are a concern, both being reduced from what you consider top tier. Do you think one is causing the other? Could bucks be ending the rut seriously out of condition and in need of the winter supplementation to be in a position to launch growth of a bigger set of antlers in the spring - where you seem to have the protein needs covered. If your answer is yes, then the question is, what's causing the bucks so much stress? Too many girlfriends or not enough buddies?

That wasn't your question, though. I'd be curious to see how the cropping practices around you have changed. I know you mention baiting and corn. But, if it -- the gap -- is corn (or a good energy source) then maybe the mix of ag production crops around you has changed assuming there are any. Corn prices have plummeted the last couple of years causing farmers to stop growing so much of it with a switch to soybeans.

I'm not sure there's any science to this. Just some 10pm ramblings that may or may not have merit.

By the way, I'm a big fan of Cropscape for determining the land cover in a given area and for determining what's changed in that regard year-over-year
https://nassgeodata.gmu.edu/CropScape/

 

[Nova]

I'm willing to submit there's some potential merit in providing supplement energy in the form of corn post rut. There's a thought that antler development and body condition for the next year are somewhat dependent on post rut nutrition. If I'm reading your initial inquiry correctly antler size and body weight are a concern, both being reduced from what you consider top tier. Do you think one is causing the other? Could bucks be ending the rut seriously out of condition and in need of the winter supplementation to be in a position to launch growth of a bigger set of antlers in the spring - where you seem to have the protein needs covered. If your answer is yes, then the question is, what's causing the bucks so much stress? Too many girlfriends or not enough buddies?

That wasn't your question, though. I'd be curious to see how the cropping practices around you have changed. I know you mention baiting and corn. But, if it -- the gap -- is corn (or a good energy source) then maybe the mix of ag production crops around you has changed assuming there are any. Corn prices have plummeted the last couple of years causing farmers to stop growing so much of it with a switch to soybeans.

I'm not sure there's any science to this. Just some 10pm ramblings that may or may not have merit.

By the way, I'm a big fan of Cropscape for determining the land cover in a given area and for determining what's changed in that regard year-over-year
https://nassgeodata.gmu.edu/CropScape/

A couple thoughts that were exactly what I was thinking. The bucks are run down from the rut because either they don't have the "carbs" to keep up with rutting activity or they have to many ladies to service, or both. I see this with bucks on our place. Does numbers are way too high and the bucks get extremely run down trying to service them all. Fortunately I am able to keep enough high quality food for them well into winter to help them recover. Trail cams pics of the mature bucks after the rut show significant body weigh loss, but usually by mid January they have recovered pretty well.

 

[Telemark]

Corn. And some clover. If that's what they used to get, and the absence caused a decline, give it back. Corn and clover are the variables, right?

 

[WTNUT]

I understand. I have and manage about 3,500 acres all together. At this farm, really the only thing that has change is the lack of supplemental feeding via corn and corn and bean plots. As for protein sources from 2000 to 2015 they got protein through natural vegetation, soybeans and lots of well fertilized clover and alfalfa plots. None of that has changed.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I'm willing to submit there's some potential merit in providing supplement energy in the form of corn post rut. There's a thought that antler development and body condition for the next year are somewhat dependent on post rut nutrition. If I'm reading your initial inquiry correctly antler size and body weight are a concern, both being reduced from what you consider top tier. Do you think one is causing the other? Could bucks be ending the rut seriously out of condition and in need of the winter supplementation to be in a position to launch growth of a bigger set of antlers in the spring - where you seem to have the protein needs covered. If your answer is yes, then the question is, what's causing the bucks so much stress? Too many girlfriends or not enough buddies?

That wasn't your question, though. I'd be curious to see how the cropping practices around you have changed. I know you mention baiting and corn. But, if it -- the gap -- is corn (or a good energy source) then maybe the mix of ag production crops around you has changed assuming there are any. Corn prices have plummeted the last couple of years causing farmers to stop growing so much of it with a switch to soybeans.

I'm not sure there's any science to this. Just some 10pm ramblings that may or may not have merit.

By the way, I'm a big fan of Cropscape for determining the land cover in a given area and for determining what's changed in that regard year-over-year
https://nassgeodata.gmu.edu/CropScape/

All good questions. I do believe the lack of weight is attributed to not having a plentiful food supply post rut. The current body and antler sizes are what I would expect to see but for additional food sources and are pretty much where they were when I started years ago. I tend to believe the lack of body weight and longer recovery time post rut is resulting in less antler growth.

Crops have not changed around me. There are essentially no crops other than clover and Timothy for hay and that has always been the case. The only change has been more baiting during season. I don't think it is significant enough to impact health of the herd so to speak.

Buck to doe ratios are about what they have been for the last 10 years.

The only advantage I see to soybeans is to give them an earlier boost in the year from the green forage.


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[WTNUT]

Corn. And some clover. If that's what they used to get, and the absence caused a decline, give it back. Corn and clover are the variables, right?

Yes, that really is what they use to get. Honestly, they use to get more corn than they could eat through the winter. I would bushog down acres of it in the spring and my biggest concern was volunteer corn.


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[Telemark]

I would go for the post-rut boost rather than pre-rut, as that's when they need it most, thus improving overall health. Right? Plus all that corn ought to pull the deer off the neighbors' bait piles, putting more deer on your property, and reducing their risk of communicable disease.

I hunt near corn in Ohio, and I think it's the best thing going.

 

[yoderjac]

...

The only advantage I see to soybeans is to give them an earlier boost in the year from the green forage.


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I'm in 7a and in most years deer don't mess with my soybean pods but when we have a mast crop failure they hammer them. I take that to mean that when deer are not using the pods it is because they have found something better. So, why wouldn't beans provide an earlier boost from the forage plus later nutrition from the pods? If they are not eating the pods...

 

[WTNUT]

...

The only advantage I see to soybeans is to give them an earlier boost in the year from the green forage.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I'm in 7a and in most years deer don't mess with my soybean pods but when we have a mast crop failure they hammer them. I take that to mean that when deer are not using the pods it is because they have found something better. So, why wouldn't beans provide an earlier boost from the forage plus later nutrition from the pods? If they are not eating the pods...

They will provide some additional boost later in the year, but I will not get nearly as much tonage of beans as I do corn. Plus, I have lots of turkeys and they hammer soybeans. They don't do much to hurt the corn that is available to deer.


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[yoderjac]

They will provide some additional boost later in the year, but I will not get nearly as much tonage of beans as I do corn. Plus, I have lots of turkeys and they hammer soybeans. They don't do much to hurt the corn that is available to deer.


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Same here. Even when we have acorn, turkey use pods hard.

Hope you figure it out,

Jack