My Zone 6A Soil Test Results - Please decipher!

[GloryDaysDesign]

Zone 6A:

All Plots Will be getting this mix, this year, from GRO (Soil Builder)
20% Triticale
20% Oats
20% Buckwheat
20% Peas
10% Crimson Clover
10% Berseem Clover


First Time Plot - Current Hayfield - 1 acre:



First Time Plot - Small Wet Pasture - 1/8 acre:



Limed/Fert last year, Unsuccessful FoodPlot - Gasline - 1/8 acre:



2nd Time Plot - Successful Brassicas/Clover Last Year (GRO Fall Draw) - 1/3 acre:

 

[Ben Glantz]

You have some pretty good PH and OM%. Should be some great plots! But for some reason the reports didn't give a suggestion on N, P or K. When you submitted the sample and filled out the form, did you list what crops you were going to plant?

 

[FarmerDan]

Field 360
pH and CA are low. Add lime at the equivalent of a ton and a half to the acre.
P is OK at 42 ppm (84 lb/acre)
K is low. Could easily stand to be double or 2 1/2x the 32 ppm

Other fields
And I'll just cut to the chase, all the fields are very low in potassium (K). Aim for at least 150 - 250 ppm. Yours are 32 ppm, 35 ppm, 42 ppm, and 50 ppm if I remember correctly.
Phosphorous is OK on all the fields.
On to pH. The first field needs limed to raise the pH and to supply a critically low level of CA (calcium). The gas line field is low in calcium and the pH is marginal. It could use some lime.
Magnesium (Mg) levels are OK everywhere.

The Pond Field results are a little suspicious. Did you lime recently? A ph of 7.5 is surprising.

When are you going to plant this? Now? And what are your sources for fertilizer. How big are each of these plots?

Without knowing any of that, I'd blindly suggest calicitic lime on 360 and gas line. If you can split the application, the equivalent of a ton-and-a-half per acre on 360 and half that rate on gas line.

Fertilizer recommendations are tricky because of how you can source it. I don't think you can find in a bag what you need. What's in a bag might be what you use, but it'll be tough to find what you need.

I'm recommending a per acre equivalent of 50-0-150 (50 lbs of nitrogen, zero pounds of phosphorous, and 150 pounds of potassium). If I had my blender and base materials i'd probably mix 109 lbs of urea (46-0-0) with 250 lbs of potassium chloride (0-0-60). But, where are you going to find it? And is it worth all the hassle? Sometime I just throw up my hands and apply enough 10-10-10 to meet my most critical need. For you, it's potassium. To get 150 lbs of potassium you would need 30 50 lb bags for an acre. Well, shoot! That's not going to work either.

What to do? Anybody?

 

[bama_jeeper]

Mine called for 60 N and 0 P 140 K. I used 400 15-0-15 and a little over 100 lbs potash. Field is a little under an acre so 350 15-0-15 and 100 potash actually applied. Just broadcast separately. 15-0-15 is routinely carried at Co-Ops in south Alabama.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

I dont know how hard it is to get fertilizer around the country, but when I go to the local farm fertilizer distributor, and tell them I want so many pounds of 46-0-0(urea), and so many pounds of 0-0-60(potash) they usually tell me to buy triple 19, or triple 10. But I just tell them I dont need the potassium, and I want urea, and potash, and then they go into giving me warnings of how to use it. I get the same thing every time I buy it. If you know any local farmers, just ask them who they get their fertilizers from. Or google it.

 

[GloryDaysDesign]

Updated to include size of plot, above.

 

[yoderjac]

I dont know how hard it is to get fertilizer around the country, but when I go to the local farm fertilizer distributor, and tell them I want so many pounds of 46-0-0(urea), and so many pounds of 0-0-60(potash) they usually tell me to buy triple 19, or triple 10. But I just tell them I dont need the potassium, and I want urea, and potash, and then they go into giving me warnings of how to use it. I get the same thing every time I buy it. If you know any local farmers, just ask them who they get their fertilizers from. Or google it.

Not hard here. My coop will mix whatever I want. They have MAP, DAP, UREA, AMS, etc. They can mix and give me a pretty close ratio. The problem is that I have lots of small fields. Once mixed, all you can control is the lbs/ac. Since each of my small fields located in different places on the farm can be quite different. I never fertilize for N because of the crop mix and rotations I use. I often buy MAP and Potash unmixed. This allows me to adjust the buggy lbs/ac for each density and apply the ratio I need. The only N I get is what is in the MAP I use to achieve my P requirement.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[FarmerDan]

Updated to include size of plot, above.

Oh. Well, then it really doesn't matter what you do because, even if you apply precisely the amount of soil amendments to maximize what ever you desired outcome might be, the result isn't a whole lot different if you do it or if you don't.
Doing nothing on the 360 is an option. If you really want to play, then a ton of lime on it. That's a lot of money a bag at a time. Nobody's coming to spread bulk. Not for an acre, What's pelleted lime? $3/40 lb? There's at least $150. Then, see if you can find 50 lb bags of potash. I've not priced any lately. Last I bought was around $25/50 lb? If you do half of what I recommended initially, you'll need 4-50 lb bags. Now you got another $100 invested. I could easily recommend doubling the potash application. Just depends how serious you are and how heavy your wallet. Then, you'll need 2 -50 lb bags of urea for the nitrogen. Again, I'm just guessing. That's another $50? If i count right the toll is $300...or more.

The other three fields are about an acre. Close enough.

I think planting GATE is risky. You call it wet and the OM is high. Low ground? Where everything drains into? No lime. Half a bag of that 50-lb bag of potash if you can find it. And 15 lbs of urea (46-0-0).

GASLINE. How good do you think you sampled the soil? Assuming its a good sample and the test results are valid - Throw down a 50-lb (or 40) bag of lime, particularly one high in Calcium - NOT magnesium. Same fertilizer as on the GATE.
What are we up to now. Lime = $4. Urea = $15, Potash = $25. Total for GASLINE and GATE - $44.

POND needs NO lime. I think you have 20 lbs of urea left, but you need 36. Skinny some of it from the other recommendations and use it here. Then top it off with 100 lbs of 0-0-60, another $50.

Total Estimated Cost: 360 Field min $300; Gasline and Gate $44; Pond $50 for a grand total of around $400.

I was going to try to paint a picture of your plot with treatment and without, but, when I look at your seed mix I can't determine when you are going to plant it. Now? Some of the stuff in the seed mix is warm season and some is cool season.

Anybody else?

 

[FarmerDan]

Not hard here. My coop will mix whatever I want. They have MAP, DAP, UREA, AMS, etc. They can mix and give me a pretty close ratio. The problem is that I have lots of small fields. Once mixed, all you can control is the lbs/ac. Since each of my small fields located in different places on the farm can be quite different. I never fertilize for N because of the crop mix and rotations I use. I often buy MAP and Potash unmixed. This allows me to adjust the buggy lbs/ac for each density and apply the ratio I need. The only N I get is what is in the MAP I use to achieve my P requirement.

Thanks,

Jack

You rent the buggy from the coop? See, "my" coop has stopped it. too much liability, they say. Do they have a minimum fertilizer purchase?

 

[Bill]

You rent the buggy from the coop? See, "my" coop has stopped it. too much liability, they say. Do they have a minimum fertilizer purchase?

Not a buggy but my fert guy loans me a cart after he mixes the fertilizer in it. I use my tractor to pull it on the fields. No min either. Heck they've bagged it for me in the past.

 

[yoderjac]

You rent the buggy from the coop? See, "my" coop has stopped it. too much liability, they say. Do they have a minimum fertilizer purchase?

I don't know if they have a minimum. It has never come up. I fertilize about 7 acres of beans with a light corn mix each spring. Every few years, I apply a little K to my clover fields while I'm at it. Sometimes they charge me for the buggy rental and sometimes they just give it to me. I have 2 stores that are about 10 miles away from me in different directions. One only has fertilizer buggies. They other also has a single lime buggy.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[yoderjac]

Personally, if I was the OP with just a couple small fields like this and those numbers, I'd probably select crops that tolerate lower fertility and pH well rather than mess too much with it.

 

[GloryDaysDesign]

What do you recommend yoderjac?

FarmerDan, holy smokes. I am now intimidated by all the knowledge I DON'T HAVE! Haha Great Post

 

[broom_JM]

Personally, if I was the OP with just a couple small fields like this and those numbers, I'd probably select crops that tolerate lower fertility and pH well rather than mess too much with it.

That's odd advice, Jack. Why wouldn't we encourage the improvement of soil health? I've got several small plots that started out as bad as, if not worse than, the plots shown in these survey results. That didn't keep me from broadcasting pelletized lime and bagged fertilizer to improve both pH and soil nutrients. The only limitation is money, and that's just paper or zeroes on a ledger, until ya spend it! :)

I say the OP learns the process and goes at it, whole hog! Why on "earth" wouldn't he??

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[4wanderingeyes]

My opinion, and it isnt worth anything, is apply the lime and the necessary P&K, skip on the N for now, then plant WR, and clover this year. Plant easy stuff that will produce now, while the soil is being amended. Then retest next year and see how much the soil improved. Plant for the present quality of your soil, not for what the soil will be after you amend, because most amendments take time to fix the soil.

 

[yoderjac]

That's odd advice, Jack. Why wouldn't we encourage the improvement of soil health? I've got several small plots that started out as bad as, if not worse than, the plots shown in these survey results. That didn't keep me from broadcasting pelletized lime and bagged fertilizer to improve both pH and soil nutrients. The only limitation is money, and that's just paper or zeroes on a ledger, until ya spend it! :)

I say the OP learns the process and goes at it, whole hog! Why on "earth" wouldn't he??

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Broom,

To my way of thinking, soil health is not necessarily about inputs. Inputs like lime and fertilizer allow soils to temporarily be more productive (as long as they are applied) but don't really improve long-term soil health. Some soils are more productive than others. Less productive soils can still be healthy. For food plotting, I like the idea of preserving soil health to start and then improving it through practices that improve nutrient cycling. If food plots are large enough and it is practical, applying inputs like lime and fertilizer can be great. However, there is a cost/benefit analysis to consider.

I'm suggesting that the starting point is smart crop selection. For me personally, with such small acreage, I'm not sure I would go the high input route. That is far different in my mind from suggesting not to use practices that encourage soil health.

GloryDays,

If you feel the need to plant in the spring for summer, Buckwheat is a great crop that is pretty tolerant and easy to grow and competes well against weeds. For fall, I'd probably choose a mix with WR as the primary component. I'd include a legume like Crimson Clover or medium red (depending on location) and perhaps a light amount of groundhog radish. All of these will helps with your soils over time.

There is nothing wrong with going the lime/fertilizer route and FarmerDan covered recommendations for that. You need to decide if the cost and effort of doing that on such a small parcel are worth the benefit to you. I would still start with the low fertility and pH crops because it does take time for amendments to work. Especially if you are smartly minimizing tillage to preserve and eventually build OM.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[broom_JM]

I like THAT answer a lot better! :)

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[Plottin'booners]

Something to think about.

 

[yoderjac]

He makes a very good point when he says that application of P&K may be more profitable in other areas. He is working on great soil. It also brings to mind the difference between a farmer producing crops for profit and removing nutrients at harvest, and the food plotter who is cycling most all of the nutrients.

More and more, I'm moving away from short-term productivity techniques and toward long-term sustainable nutrient cycling and permaculture. It seems more and more boils down to cycling. Whether it is nutrient cycling, rotating crops, or rotating succession level in timber management, nature does not stand still. The key seems to be establishing a variety of habitat and working with nature to ensure a good mix as things change over time.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[FarmerDan]

Well, there's a whole bunch of ways to look at the many philosophies behind fertilizer applications. From a production point of view, one way to look at the soil is like a mine. This is just me, but what I heard the accomplished gentleman in the video say was, "I'm going to mine the soil until most all the nutrients are gone. Then, I might consider applying soil amendments. Other producers understand it's important to replace the P & K carried off in the harvest. That gets to the true cost of production. Low levels of nutrients probably do no harm to yield under ideal circumstances. He mentioned all the different kinds of weather. An inadequate soil nutrient level when weather conditions are cold and wet will bang the heck out of yields.

Which brings us to habitat management and food plots specifically. My question is, and its a probing question - "What are we trying to accomplish and will fertilizer and lime get us there?" My thinking is, if you're a rookie and you're asking me, I'd say fertilize. You want to see something grow and lime and fertilizer takes on variable out of the "possible failure" equation. Now, if you have buckets of experience and have logged many hours of study (reading these forum threads is studying), and have time and patience, then, you are ready to initiate, to use yoder's words, "long-term sustainable nutrient cycling and permaculture.

There are many ways to think about all of this. Dear reader, I'd encourage you to understand yours!" I can't leave it there. i know many of you long time contributors and readers get it, but, I guess there are a lot of people interested in food plotting that don't post and lots of times don't understand what the heck we're writing! Tip of the cap to you....