LA S-1 Clover

[yoderjac]

Years ago, when I was looking at improved clovers for my area, based on recommendations from guys I respect back on the QDMA forum, I narrowed it down to two, Durana and LA S-1. I found a source where I could get Durana for $5/lb delivered from Poudre Valley Coop (Harvey Nail at the time). It is much more expensive locally. Because Durana is so persistent, I don't buy it often, but the last time I got it, it was still $5/lb delivered. I could not find a source for LA S-1 at the time do I ended up with Durana and I'm very happy with it for my application.

Well, it is time for me to do some more clover planting this fall. I started poking around and found a source for LA S-1 that is about $3.50/lb delivered. I decided to give it a try.

Is anyone else out there using LA S-1 white clover? If so, how does it compare to Durana. The primary characteristics I chose Durana for is its drought tolerance and persistence. It goes dormant for a much shorter period in dry summers and not at all in wet summers here. It lasts significantly longer than

 

[TreeDaddy]

its also called "Dutch" clover locally ; sells for 200$/50 #

Its advertised as a perennial but acts more like a reseeding annual in east texas

I have no experience with durana

bill

 

[yoderjac]

its also called "Dutch" clover locally ; sells for 200$/50 #

Its advertised as a perennial but acts more like a reseeding annual in east texas

I have no experience with durana

bill

I think "Dutch" and "Ladino" sort are often used to refer to classes of perennial white clover. "Dutch" seems to refer to smaller clovers and Ladino to larger. As I understand it, LA - S1 is a specific improved hybrid variety like Durana and some of the New Zealand varieties the WI uses. I believe 5 different white clovers were crossed and selected for hot, dry conditions and I believe it flowers later. Here is the LSU article on it from back in the 50's https://digitalcommons.lsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1232&context=agexp

If the clover you are buying is sold as "Dutch", I'm not sure it is the same thing. I can see how folks might commonly call LA - S1 "Dutch", but if the seed tag doesn't say the variety is "LA - S1", it is probably something different.

Thanks,

jack

 

[TreeDaddy]

Easttexasseedcompany.com

Its the real deal

bill

 

[yoderjac]

Easttexasseedcompany.com

Its the real deal

bill

Yep, that is the stuff. If that is what you've been planting, you've got experience with it. Sounds like it does not have the persistence of Durana. BTW, I bought mine from NE for about $175 for a 50 lb bag, but the coating may be different.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[SwampCat]

This wont answer your question, but I have a spot where I planted Imperial Whitetail Clover ten years ago. The first five or six years, I kept the plot maintained. But then I quit and a variety of weeds - mostly johnson grass, has taken over. There is still a white clover that persists. I would say it does every bit as good - and maybe better than durana. The current Imperial Whitetail lists several ladino clover varieties. I wish I knew which variety it was - I would definitely try on a much larger scale. The hogs are really eating it up right now - it may not make it through them.

 

[yoderjac]

This wont answer your question, but I have a spot where I planted Imperial Whitetail Clover ten years ago. The first five or six years, I kept the plot maintained. But then I quit and a variety of weeds - mostly johnson grass, has taken over. There is still a white clover that persists. I would say it does every bit as good - and maybe better than durana. The current Imperial Whitetail lists several ladino clover varieties. I wish I knew which variety it was - I would definitely try on a much larger scale. The hogs are really eating it up right now - it may not make it through them.

The problem with WTI is that the improved clovers they use are exclusively licensed and they don't sell them alone, only in mixes with inexpensive annual clover comprising a lot of the bag. If I could buy them alone, I'd be willing to pay a premium in the same ball-park to what I pay for Durana. They have just made a business decision not to sell them that way.

 

[davidhelmly]

I don't have any experience with LA-S1 but I have been using Alice white clover for years because it's about $2.00 a pound cheaper than Durana. When I switched from Durana to Alice I honestly couldn't tell a difference in the two. If you have never tried it Jack it may be worth a look.
https://welterseed.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Retail-Price-List-2019.pdf

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

I'm using Alice also (planted last fall for the first time) My clover plot has never seen more use. (our deer numbers are higher right now than they have been in a number of years though)

 

[yoderjac]

I don't have any experience with LA-S1 but I have been using Alice white clover for years because it's about $2.00 a pound cheaper than Durana. When I switched from Durana to Alice I honestly couldn't tell a difference in the two. If you have never tried it Jack it may be worth a look.
https://welterseed.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Retail-Price-List-2019.pdf

I'm using Alice also (planted last fall for the first time) My clover plot has never seen more use. (our deer numbers are higher right now than they have been in a number of years though)

How does it handle drought compared to Durana. Drought resistance and persistence are the reasons I went to Durana. How would you say Alice compares in these areas?

 

[davidhelmly]

How does it handle drought compared to Durana. Drought resistance and persistence are the reasons I went to Durana. How would you say Alice compares in these areas?

I honestly can’t tell any difference from the Durana, our summers here in central GA are crazy dry every year and it hangs in there just like Durana. It’s also very persistent, I’ve got some clover plots that are 7-8 years old.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

I have never planted Durana (that I know of) and this is my first year planting Alice (again as I know may have on BOB seed in the past). We generally don't have to worry about drought up here and this year I don't think we have gone more than 6-7 days without some precipitation.

 

[yoderjac]

I'll have to give it a try! It is slightly more expensive than what I've been paying for Durana. I'm also intrigued by Aberlasting clover. Seems like the advertised characteristics are similar to Durana but it is more low pH tolerant which fits my soils. It looks like Welters is selling it for $6/lb plus shipping verses 5/lb delivered for Durana (last time I bought it).

Thanks,

jack

 

[davidhelmly]

I'll have to give it a try! It is slightly more expensive than what I've been paying for Durana. I'm also intrigued by Aberlasting clover. Seems like the advertised characteristics are similar to Durana but it is more low pH tolerant which fits my soils. It looks like Welters is selling it for $6/lb plus shipping verses 5/lb delivered for Durana (last time I bought it).

Thanks,

jack

I agree completely on the Aberlasting, this year I’m trying a mix of Aberlasting, Balansa, Med red, PTT, GHR and chicory from Welters.

 

[yoderjac]

Well, I broke down and just ordered a 50# bag of Aberlasting. It is expensive. It ran me $6.34/lb delivered. I will mix it with the LA S-1 and probably some Durana and medium red. I'll try some different mixes and probably even use chicory in some. All will be planted with a WR nurse crop this fall. Time will tell how it performs. I ordered a 50# bag of GHR and 10 lbs of chicory the other day. It might have been less expensive if I had decided to order this the other day as well and had it all in one order.

 

[Mike]

yoderjack-please report back in a year your experience with the Aberlasting if you can remember. I just recently responded on another thread about my experience with renovation white clover at the one year mark (I felt like it was slow to establish but is really thick and choking out competiton right now). Aberlasting sure sounds interesting with its ability to spread through both stolens and rhibozomes underground roots. If Aberlasting is as good as they say it would be great in a mix with Renovation and maybe Jumbo Ladino II.

 

[SD51555]

Well, I broke down and just ordered a 50# bag of Aberlasting. It is expensive. It ran me $6.34/lb delivered. I will mix it with the LA S-1 and probably some Durana and medium red. I'll try some different mixes and probably even use chicory in some. All will be planted with a WR nurse crop this fall. Time will tell how it performs. I ordered a 50# bag of GHR and 10 lbs of chicory the other day. It might have been less expensive if I had decided to order this the other day as well and had it all in one order.

What is it that you're trying to get out of your next clover?

 

[yoderjac]

yoderjack-please report back in a year your experience with the Aberlasting if you can remember. I just recently responded on another thread about my experience with renovation white clover at the one year mark (I felt like it was slow to establish but is really thick and choking out competiton right now). Aberlasting sure sounds interesting with its ability to spread through both stolens and rhibozomes underground roots. If Aberlasting is as good as they say it would be great in a mix with Renovation and maybe Jumbo Ladino II.

Will do!

What is it that you're trying to get out of your next clover?

Well, I'm pretty happy with the performance of Durana in my area. When I started this thread, I was looking for a less expensive alternative that had similar performance. Thus my interest in LA-S1. As I was looking at other alternatives, I camera across Aberlasting. It was not less expensive, and in fact, it was more expensive than I was paying for Durana. The thing that peaked my interest was the claim of performance with low pH. While lime is not expensive in dollars, it takes a lot of my time driving back and forth to the coop with the lime buggy. The less often I have to add maintenance lime and still have performing clover the better.

Each clover has strengths and weaknesses. I'll probably try some different mixes of these.

Thanks,

Jack