I think I failed.....

[j-bird]

I think my first attempt at grafting has failed. I think I grafted too early. I had a break in the weather a few weeks back (late Feb) and decide to try my had at grafting some apple to a crabapple I have. I have never done this before so I really didn't expect overwhelming success.....but.....I think I got a total failure. This was more to be a learning experience than anything - the failed grafts are no loss, I just need to learn how to graft...

As you can see the crabapple tree is waking up, yet my grafts show no signs of life. The other apple trees that these grafts where taken from are starting to wake up as well. Now maybe I am expecting too much, but I would have thought the grafted parts would have "woken-up" the same time as the rest of the tree or at least when the other apples did. Mine appears to not be the case...... I am also seeing freeze warning and the like as well for tonight so I am fearful of what that will do as well. It has been a crazy spring here thus far.

Did I graft too soon?
Are the pieces I grafted too big/long?
Is there still any chance of success?

 

[H20fwler]

It’s kind of hard to tell from the pic. I would give it a little more time yet, I don’t write them off as a fail until they get wrinkley looking.

Your sizes of scions look OK, were they last years new growth?

 

[chickenlittle]

Scratch a scion or two so see if there is still green cambium. If so, be patient.

I think you did graft too soon. I'd have waited until they were pushing growth and past likely last hard frost to graft these. But that don't mean these won't take.

 

[j-bird]

It’s kind of hard to tell from the pic. I would give it a little more time yet, I don’t write them off as a fail until they get wrinkley looking.

Your sizes of scions look OK, were they last years new growth?

Yes - I used the tips of what grew last year.

 

[j-bird]

Scratch a scion or two so see if there is still green cambium. If so, be patient.

I think you did graft too soon. I'd have waited until they were pushing growth and past likely last hard frost to graft these. But that don't mean these won't take.

Is there still time to try additional ones or have I missed that window as well? I still have some scions left in the fridge if it's not a waste of time...... I don't mind failing, it's not really learning anything from the failure that frustrates me.....

 

[H20fwler]

I’d give it more time then, your grafts look sealed good and tight. What type of graft did you do whip and tongue?

 

[Prof.Kent]

The scion has to heal before it can sprout. Give it some more time. If it doesn't sprout make cuts with better cambium connection next time.

 

[Native Hunter]

I agree with the others about giving it more time.

However, I will also mention that leaving that much of the original tree and only grafting a couple of small limbs takes away from your chances of success in my opinion. I'm not saying that it is impossible, but simply that the chances are reduced.

Why? Because so much of the vigor goes to the original tree rather than to the new scions. Last year when I topworked I had 100% success on about 15 apples taking out the complete top. The year before that, me and someone else did a few trees the same way you did those and we had 0% success. Yet, on the ones we did the complete job on the same year, we had high success.

Just my opinion. I'm not a grafting expert by any means, but I know what I have seen, and it makes sense.

Best wishes.

 

[NE PA QDM]

Is there still time to try additional ones or have I missed that window as well? I still have some scions left in the fridge if it's not a waste of time...... I don't mind failing, it's not really learning anything from the failure that frustrates me.....

The best thing I did for myself in the last few years was to decide I wasn't going to be afraid of failure and to go out on a limb (ha!) and try some new things.
I would give those more time, my scions often seem to lag a bit behind the rootstock or tree branches when it comes to greening up.
I have field grafted early the last few years (early march in zone 5) and there were many nights with temps in low 20s after I grafted. My success rate was still above 90% so I know it can be done. Good luck.

 

[j-bird]

I agree with the others about giving it more time.

However, I will also mention that leaving that much of the original tree and only grafting a couple of small limbs takes away from your chances of success in my opinion. I'm not saying that it is impossible, but simply that the chances are reduced.

Why? Because so much of the vigor goes to the original tree rather than to the new scions. Last year when I topworked I had 100% success on about 15 apples taking out the complete top. The year before that, me and someone else did a few trees the same way you did those and we had 0% success. Yet, on the ones we did the complete job on the same year, we had high success.

Just my opinion. I'm not a grafting expert by any means, but I know what I have seen, and it makes sense.

Best wishes.

I wondered about this as well. I wondered if the tree would try to "save" a damaged limb vs just putting that energy into the rest of the healthy tree. I guess I will wait and see. The only reason I didn't truly top work the tree was a fear of them not taking and loosing a tree I can experiment with.

 

[j-bird]

Well still no signs of life, but I did cut on of them to see.....looks green to me. So I guess I wait a few more weeks and see.

 

[j-bird]

Well - I did....sort of. I was out over the weekend and checked my grafts one last time before I just cut them off and called it a total failure and......I had to look twice but I had life! I had about 30 or 40% acceptance, but I was thrilled! I sure have a lot to learn but even a little success is a great motivator!!!!

 

[greyphase]

Great news. Now you can start thinking about next years grafts.

 

[j-bird]

Great news. Now you can start thinking about next years grafts.

The bad thing is I am not sure what I did right or wrong. All this has taught me is to graft far more than I think I want. I will continue to steal from my other trees for now just because it is easy. That poor crabapple will be a freak when it is all done, but I don't care. I may even have some other crabs to add to this one in a few years as well. Since I have had some success I will take better notes and the like as to what I do so to better guide my efforts. I am not sure what normal success is for what I tried to do. 30% to 40% is pretty good when reaching base in baseball, but is terrible if that is the test score in school! All I know is that I will try even more next year....on the same tree and see what I get.....I will more than likely get a little more aggressive.

 

[chickenlittle]

It is always a numbers game. Luckily grafting is so easy. Best if you graft more than you need, don't keep accurate numbers on your success rate, and get excited at your successes.

I did about 90 pear grafts, 24 varieties, 5 different rootstocks this spring. I realized while grafting that some scions probably were dried out and would fail but i used them anyway. I have about 40% pushing growth and at least one good graft for most varieties. Success might improve yet but could get worse too. Any failures will get re-grafted later if the rootstock lives. I am still happy at the few that are pushing vigorous growth.

 

[j-bird]

It is always a numbers game. Luckily grafting is so easy. Best if you graft more than you need, don't keep accurate numbers on your success rate, and get excited at your successes.

I did about 90 pear grafts, 24 varieties, 5 different rootstocks this spring. I realized while grafting that some scions probably were dried out and would fail but i used them anyway. I have about 40% pushing growth and at least one good graft for most varieties. Success might improve yet but could get worse too. Any failures will get re-grafted later if the rootstock lives. I am still happy at the few that are pushing vigorous growth.

Is bench grafting like I think you are doing more or less likely to be successful? I did mine right on the tree but I would not call it top working either as there was a significant part of the tree that I left unaffected. With what I have done thus far I hope to affect a much larger portion of the tree next year. I may even try to cut some larger limbs and see what happens as well. Worst thing I do is kill it......

 

[chickenlittle]

I did both bench and field grafts. The main difference is that I wait for the tree to wake up before field grafting. That gives less time for the scionwood to dry out before the tree breaks dormancy and the tree can push growth as soon as the graft heals. You do need to maintain your scionwood a few weeks longer in the fridge. But as you found out, you can have success even if you field graft earlier than I do.