I hate NH deer hunting

[Bowsnbucks]

I hunted in Maine for 5 different years and that's pretty much how you do it. Sneak and peek hunting. But I have to say, for the toughness of the hunt and you're truly one-on-one with the deer, it's probably the coolest hunting I've ever done. Knowing there may be a big, old dark mossy-horn watching you from some spruce tangle made the hair stand up on my neck many times !!!

I came onto a buck fight scene once ( in Maine ) and it was frightening. Blood all over, chunks of fur, saplings knocked over, ground tore up for 20 yds. It was the week before Thanksgiving and when I saw that, the chills ran up & down my back knowing what kind of bucks were in the area. Every nerve ending was on edge that day. It was as pure as it gets !!!

 

[Reagan]

Not sure if you're into it, or have the time, space. or patients...but being in the same situation here in Mass. and southern VT I have taken to hunting whitetails Larry Benoit style after bow season closes. It takes a certain mental and physical toughness, but tracking deer in the Northern forests during a late season black powder or shotgun hunt can be rewarding. You cover ground, out all day, moving slowly through swamps, mountains, etc..it's like a chess match. Got to know when to move quickly and cover ground, and then when to slow down and creep along at a mind numbingly boring slow pace for that final 100 yards before the shot. Some days you get busted. Some days the sun goes down before you ever get close. But every now and then you creep around that last tree in a snowy spruce swamp and there he is 50 yards away, upwind, broadside with no clue that you are about to lower the hammer.

I figure I can sit in a tree all day and see nothing, or get down and track them down, enjoy the woods, get some exercise, see some beautiful country, and truly HUNT like very few of the big name TV personalities can. They'd be like babes in the woods without every creature comfort known to man in the stand with them.

Just a thought....

When I was young and the only stand that Dad and I shared was a homemade climber, I used to do this. But since southern Ohio rarely has snow during gun season, I would do it with bow in hand in December and January. I never tracked and killed a deer but I came close a couple of times and learned a lot in the process. This would be one form of gun hunting that would appeal to me. Now we just need some late November, early December snow.


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[chummer]

Not sure if you're into it, or have the time, space. or patients...but being in the same situation here in Mass. and southern VT I have taken to hunting whitetails Larry Benoit style after bow season closes. It takes a certain mental and physical toughness, but tracking deer in the Northern forests during a late season black powder or shotgun hunt can be rewarding. You cover ground, out all day, moving slowly through swamps, mountains, etc..it's like a chess match. Got to know when to move quickly and cover ground, and then when to slow down and creep along at a mind numbingly boring slow pace for that final 100 yards before the shot. Some days you get busted. Some days the sun goes down before you ever get close. But every now and then you creep around that last tree in a snowy spruce swamp and there he is 50 yards away, upwind, broadside with no clue that you are about to lower the hammer.

I figure I can sit in a tree all day and see nothing, or get down and track them down, enjoy the woods, get some exercise, see some beautiful country, and truly HUNT like very few of the big name TV personalities can. They'd be like babes in the woods without every creature comfort known to man in the stand with them.

Just a thought....

I hunt the same type of terrain and low numbers as well. Other than a week during the rut it is pointless to sit in a stand all day. You are hoping a deer with access to thousands of acres wanders by your tree. With only a few bucks on those acres it likely isn't going to happen unless they are searching for an equally scarce doe. It only took me 12 years to figure that out. Not to pile on but my buddy hunts NH for a week every year at his FiL's, he has never seen a deer in 10 years. I think he saw a track once.

 

[Ojibwa]

Not to pile on but my buddy hunts NH for a week every year at his FiL's, he has never seen a deer in 10 years. I think he saw a track once.

I see a fair amount of tracks in and around the cutover behind the house but most of the tracks look to be left by yearlings and fawns.. The cut is about two years and still looks like it was cut this summer. I know it takes longer for forest to regenerate up so I figure in another two years it will be right.. The baiting season [yes there is a baiting season] starts in a few weeks and I am thinking of dumping a bunch of corn out and putting a cam on it just to see if I can get a few pics.. I did a pic of this old girl the other day she would fit in my freezer just fine..lol but hesitant to even shoot a doe because of so few deer in the area..

 

[wiscwhip]

but hesitant to even shoot a doe because of so few deer in the area..

Probably a smart tactic until you get a better feel for the local population.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Get to the point, Stu. Don't sugar-coat it !!! :D ^^^^^

Ojibwa - There have been studies done about the effects of acid rain in the Northeast states, and the lowering of the " net alkalinity " and buffering capacity of the soil in the Northeast. I believe UMass, Penn State, Cornell, and possibly U. of Maine have done them at various times - possibly in collaboration. But the net effect was determined to be - among others - acid rain and lowered buffering capacity slowed forest regeneration. With low deer numbers in the Northeast - relative to years past - deer could no longer be blamed for the lack of regeneration for so many millions of acres. Your slow regen. in your cut doesn't surprise me. Just for the heck of it, dump a few bags of lime in one small area and see if more growth happens there. If you can, put a fence around the limed area, and also fence a small area that has NO lime added about 50 - 75 ft. away from the limed area. Compare what happens in both enclosures.

 

[sandbur]

I just spent a day and a half partridge (grouse) hunting in northern Mn. I drove around quite a bit at dusk and daylight and even after dark. Twenty five years ago I bow hunted and rifle hunted up there. Every field used to have 5-10 deer on it and one or two fields would have up to 60 deer. Driving after dark you would see 3-5 deer every mile along the road edge.
I would guess I drove 75 miles at prime time. I saw one deer!

Guys at hunting camps up there are happy if the camp gets 2 spikes during a season.
Sad situation. That's wolf country.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Stu - I like it !!!:p:p ^^^^^

Bur - I can relate. The one set of roads thru the mountains near my camp used to be deer heaven for seeing good numbers. On a Sunday morning, starting at first possible light, 2 cousins and I drove slowly on those roads and counted 256 deer. This was in the 70's. Now - at dawn or dusk, you're lucky to see 15 deer. I'm not making up those figures. Some fields looked like a reflector factory at night with a spotlight. No more. I'm sad for your situation too.

 

[MA VT Flatlander]

In the 60's VT had 250.000 deer more deer per sq. mi. then any state. I started hunting in N.Tunbridge VT. at my uncles farm in 1964. There were deer all over the place. It was bucks only hunting back then. In the late 60' and early 70's they came out with party permits for does. That is what killed the deer hunting in Vermont.

Vermont used to be the go to state for bow hunting.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

NH - Back then I was riding also !! 4 x 4 pick-up my older cousin had. We used to go out EVERY weekend back then and more or less idle our way thru those roads. 5 to 10 mph at most. We used to see all kinds of deer - but like you said, no coyotes back then. No 500,000 doe tags then either. Seeing 50 - 60 deer in a big field was no big deal !! I tell my sons about those days and I think - they think - I'm joshing them.

MA VT - It's a shame with Vermont too. It's a beautiful place in the fall. What a better place to bow hunt than VT. !! ( when the herds were good )

 

[Natty Bumppo]

The forests have also changed in the Northeast in the past 20, 30, 40 years. I have the same memory of driving the back roads in southern VT (Somerset Reservoir area) in the late 70's and early 80's and seeing deer around every corner on a night drive with family. Lots of early and mid-succesional growth after the massive logging operations in the 1800's up through the 1950's. Now, 40 years later, maturing yellow birch, beech, maple, and black cherry dominate. There's little understory and little cover. It's just not quality whitetail habitat anymore. Nor is it rabbit or grouse habitat. My gramp used to tell me stories about "greybob" hunting back in the 50's and 60's when every hunter had a beagle and belonged to a hound and hunt club. Those have all but vanished.

It's the same story here in western Mass., and I'm guessing throughout New England. Maturing forests, loss of habitat due to development, the range expansion of the eastern coyote, and a shifting cultural misperception of "taboo" large scale logging operations. A perfect storm.

I'm not a paranoid conspiracy "black helicopter" kind of thinker....but I have wondered if the deer and turkey and small game biologists in MassWildlife are pressured, either overtly or tacitly, to keep deer and turkey pops. below carrying capacity. Fewer deer = fewer hunters = fewer kids getting into hunting = fewer guns = ???

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Natty - I don't know about your gun theory. Lots of news reports say the fastest growing segment of gun ownership is WOMEN. For protection. And I can't blame them a bit. Slashing budgets everywhere have police numbers shrinking in many places and the way muggers, rapists, robbers, car-jackers are like weeds popping up everywhere - there aren't enough cops even if they were up to full staff numbers. Drug trade drives most of the muggings, break-ins, car-jackings, etc. Hoods need $$$ for dope. Women feel like rabbits in a wolf den. Around here, lots of women taking gun and shooting courses.

I don't think in reality most politicians - on either side - fear hunters. We are the most responsible gun owners out there, and HAVE BEEN for decades. The problems come from the illegal guns on black markets & in straw sales. And SOME legal sales.

Also - I live somewhat near a Cabela's. When my sons and I go there to get anything, we always go over to the gun counters. Guess who are lined up 3 - deep all along the counters to buy guns ??? Pistols - not rifles or shotguns. Inner - city blacks and Hispanics. All going for semi-auto, multi-clips, etc. Now what do you suppose those are for ??? We all know they aren't target shooting or competing in a tourney somewhere. And they aren't hunting with them either. If they have no " priors " - it's a sale. No prior record doesn't mean they don't have bad INTENTIONS. Don't know how you stop that kind of sale.

I agree with you and NH on the forest conditions. Logging is GOOD for deer. Even in Maine, the best areas to find deer are where logging has been done for a year or 2. Lots of browse growing up and thicker cover.

 

[Ojibwa]

You do as you wish...but if you aren't seeing many deer and you shoot a doe, I better not hear you complaining about not having deer around in the future ;)

never said I WAS going to shoot her I said I would be hesitant to shoot her, so I guess should have been more clear I probably wouldn't...lol.. hoping in the future I am living somewhere else...
And as for most of the rest of the hunters in this state it seems to be if it's brown it's down.

 

[Ojibwa]

I agree with you and NH on the forest conditions. Logging is GOOD for deer. Even in Maine, the best areas to find deer are where logging has been done for a year or 2. Lots of browse growing up and thicker cover.

have tried to have this discussion with NH hunters..mature forest bad new growth from cut overs good, all I get is anger and rage..
I know in northern MI where I grew up as soon as loggers moved out the deer moved in..

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Stu - Those attitudes are mainly in the big cities ( p. correct ). Not everybody in the East walks on eggshells. Just like tracks in the snow - you can't deny what's before your eyes !! There are whites that are bad-a$$ punks too. The common thread to MOST of the crime is drugs. Risk your life for a " high ". I can't understand it. :confused:o_O

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Yep- It's pretty rough up in the northern half. The local women that came out to the bars at night to check out the hunters ...... :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

 

[MA VT Flatlander]

The forests have also changed in the Northeast in the past 20, 30, 40 years. I have the same memory of driving the back roads in southern VT (Somerset Reservoir area) in the late 70's and early 80's and seeing deer around every corner on a night drive with family. Lots of early and mid-succesional growth after the massive logging operations in the 1800's up through the 1950's. Now, 40 years later, maturing yellow birch, beech, maple, and black cherry dominate. There's little understory and little cover. It's just not quality whitetail habitat anymore. Nor is it rabbit or grouse habitat. My gramp used to tell me stories about "greybob" hunting back in the 50's and 60's when every hunter had a beagle and belonged to a hound and hunt club. Those have all but vanished.


It's the same story here in western Mass., and I'm guessing throughout New England. Maturing forests, loss of habitat due to development, the range expansion of the eastern coyote, and a shifting cultural misperception of "taboo" large scale logging operations. A perfect storm.

I'm not a paranoid conspiracy "black helicopter" kind of thinker....but I have wondered if the deer and turkey and small game biologists in MassWildlife are pressured, either overtly or tacitly, to keep deer and turkey pops. below carrying capacity. Fewer deer = fewer hunters = fewer kids getting into hunting = fewer guns = ???

Natty there is logging going on all over MA. especially around your area. http://clearcutma.blogspot.com/ . Those clear cuts should have lot's of deer in them now. If not Why not?

I think a lot of the low deer population has got to do with forest certification.

 

[Ojibwa]

Heres a question for the New HAMPSHIRITES on here.. back in 98 and 99 there were several articles written on there being too many deer in NH, How did we go from too many to well below carrying capacity? it can't all be blamed on weather... and why are the bag limits so liberal in the southern half of the state?guess I just answered my own question...

 

[Natty Bumppo]

Lots of logging going on in NH on private, state and national lands. Vermont has restricted logging in the Green Mountain National Forest which covers the mid part and length of the state.

Good to hear NH Mtns.

Natty - I don't know about your gun theory.

I hear you. Nothing I've ever thought about too much...sometimes I just wonder about policy decisions behind closed doors.

Natty there is logging going on all over MA. especially around your area. http://clearcutma.blogspot.com/ . Those clear cuts should have lot's of deer in them now. If not Why not?

I think a lot of the low deer population has got to do with forest certification.

That's a great site MA VT Flatlander...a little funny. I love some of the captions...the poor state forests that have been slaughtered. I live in the Savoy State Forest and thathuge logging area is just starting to regenerate nicely. As you said, it will be nice to see if the deer pop. responds. And if not, why?

 

[wiscwhip]

Not from NH, but the liberal bag limits likely have to do with proximity to metro areas in the SE corner of the state and the fact that folks don't like deer eating their $100 designer shrubs and leaping onto the hoods of their $80,000 Mercedes. No different than any other metro area.